J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
OK FD, I put my vote in. The only reason I was reluctant to post anything in this thread is because I think you played this hand terribly, and the reasons have been repeatedly said by others, no sense into adding more. I will however admit that your opponents play was just as bad, also for reasons that have been pointed out by others. So his play was just as donkish, but what does this change? It won't change the fact you played this terribly after he called your flop bet, and even that was bad when you look at the board. The fact your opponent played terribly doesn't justify what you did.
Because of all this I was reluctant to post here, it seems pointless to me who played it worse, the fact is you lucked out so I can't say "bravo FD", as that wouldn't be honest. Don't take it personal though, we all make mistakes, at least I certainly do.
Sorry friend, no offense.
Because of all this I was reluctant to post here, it seems pointless to me who played it worse, the fact is you lucked out so I can't say "bravo FD", as that wouldn't be honest. Don't take it personal though, we all make mistakes, at least I certainly do.
Sorry friend, no offense.
tenbob
Legend
Silver Level
Heh, ive been reading this thread with interest over the last few days, and ive been trying to rationalise FD's train of thought over the hand. Making plays like this and knowing when to shut down on the bluff is important.
FD im sure you realise that you were effecively short-stacked playing this hand, which in itself makes you more prone to be called down, running bluffs by nature need your opponents to realise that playing the hand puts THEIR full stack at risk, anyhow thats not the point of the hand.
The p/f raise is fine, the flop bet whilst id like to see it a little bigger isnt terrible, its a nice flop to be bluffing into as a p/f raiser, and perhaps a bigger bet would have gotten rid of the Jacks. Once im called on the flop here, im done, finished with the hand, im not betting the turn, check fold, the JJ would prob have checked in an amazing slow play and still lost on the river.
As for pot-committing yourself on the turn, its terrible, id be more in favour of a turn shove than the bet you put in, however as the hand has played out, i check fold the turn and save myself some monies.
The JJ, play was totally spack though, however bad your play was, and tbh if the reasoning is there for it then its not terrible.
Some interesting responses to the thread though FD, and im sure that was your full point of it, I voted both played equallly as bad, on hindsite the JJ was the worst.
FD im sure you realise that you were effecively short-stacked playing this hand, which in itself makes you more prone to be called down, running bluffs by nature need your opponents to realise that playing the hand puts THEIR full stack at risk, anyhow thats not the point of the hand.
The p/f raise is fine, the flop bet whilst id like to see it a little bigger isnt terrible, its a nice flop to be bluffing into as a p/f raiser, and perhaps a bigger bet would have gotten rid of the Jacks. Once im called on the flop here, im done, finished with the hand, im not betting the turn, check fold, the JJ would prob have checked in an amazing slow play and still lost on the river.
As for pot-committing yourself on the turn, its terrible, id be more in favour of a turn shove than the bet you put in, however as the hand has played out, i check fold the turn and save myself some monies.
The JJ, play was totally spack though, however bad your play was, and tbh if the reasoning is there for it then its not terrible.
Some interesting responses to the thread though FD, and im sure that was your full point of it, I voted both played equallly as bad, on hindsite the JJ was the worst.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I'm certainly guilty of turbo-reading threads, so when i read this i stopped reading everyone elses replies and went back to the Hand in question (so apologies if following has already been said).
I voted 4dogs, and i dont think it was close. I haven't got a problem with pre-flop raise to bump the pot up (to be honest i cant really get excited playing with $4), but the post flop bet was a waste of 90 cents. It's not enough to get the people who are going call to the end just to see if they win (I call em Tee Reals), and with 6 cards still in play, 3 players that have called a raise (admittedly 30 cents but a raise all the same), on the balance of probabilities i would have though someone would have caught (though it appears no-one did). Of course, everyone could have folded and you'd have pick up the pot, but the risk/reward ratio isn't great, highlighted by your actions on the turn. I'm sure this was a "OK you called the first one grudgingly, but now i'm really showing you i've got a hand so you'd better fold now" bet, but now you've stuck $3.30 into a pot with A K J on board with only Q 8. When he re-raised i bet you didn't do a quick calculation working out the pot odds - you had dug yourself into a hole which you couldn't get out of (and believe me, i'm the friggin Grandmaster of doing that!) so had to call and hope.
The villain - pre-flop call OK.
Post flop call? Probably not, but we are talking a 90c call not $9 or $90.
After that, obviously his hand plays itself.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Oops, sorry, maybe i should have read it to the end! Mate, we've all been caught out bluffing and we've all caught miracle rivers, but analysing "good" beats is as important as analysing bad ones. I personally agree with pretty much every word that everyone (apart from you
) has typed in the thread, but i'll make 2 more points. When you said you were giving him incorrect odds to call, i really dont think that's an issue at low levels - 90c is 90c regardless of whether it's 3x 4x or 5x BB. Secondly, i had a little chuckle when you said "my instinct were right" - you're not Phil Ivey, you were just hoping he didn't have an Ace or a King, and your opponent was hoping that you didn't have an Ace or a King.
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
Glad to get your thoughts on this Rob, same to you tenbob.
No I'm not Phil Ivey, but I do have a pretty good sense for when an opponent is strong or not. Not perfect but pretty good. I don't think I was being just optimistic in reading them as weak. I realize that a check isn't always indicative of a weak hand, but that's what it's representing and as the preflop raiser, I'm usually willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. If anyone bothered to read the first post in this thread, it was never about bragging. I acknowleged my suckout and simply stated that due to my opponents poor play (my opinion folks, I get to keep that) I didn't feel too bad about it. I still don't, although I tend to agree that my bet sizing and the turn bet may have left something to be desired. Still, I'm happy with the course this thread has taken and some of the comments were actually helpful and constructive. Others don't seem like they'll be satisfied until admit complete and abject donkitude and beg forgiveness.
M
mischman
Legend
Silver Level
I agree FD, if you think your oppenent is weak, go for it, try to push them off the hand if you think you can. But you need to remember your not playing $300/$600 on highstakes poker with the pros. your playng $10NL with the average donks. There not going to give a player that hasnt raised in 100 hands respect, there not going to pick up reads/tells.
You have to assume with 3 other people in one of them has caught a king or ace, it was JJ which was weaker but still.
Sorry for calling you an ass too
You have to assume with 3 other people in one of them has caught a king or ace, it was JJ which was weaker but still.
Sorry for calling you an ass too
hott_estelle
Legend
Silver Level
I hate gay porn.
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
Holy shit! I actually understood everything you said.
I do have a tendency to play like it's the Big Game at Bellagio. Wishful thinking I guess.
hott_estelle
Legend
Silver Level
ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
How is it every thread in cc ends up being about sheep (or was it goats?)/cake/estelles chest/some dispute about the riggedness of online poker?
hott_estelle
Legend
Silver Level
Because poker by itself isn't enough for us I guess???
And you missed the misch's chest in that list.
That, or God has a weird sense of humor.
skoldpadda
Caveman Eye Surgeon
Bronze Level
I'm sure whatever is said by Dorkus, Estelle and Joose is right on... too tired to make my way through it right now.
In brief, I'd say you played this like a complete donkey and if it's representative of your overall play, you will never be a winning player unless you change your game.
EDIT: ok, wait. On careful review, you're still a donk (and having played many a hand like a donk myself, I know 'em when I see 'em)... but I don't agree with all the stuff Estelle said... I don't want to see any CC member's titties.
In brief, I'd say you played this like a complete donkey and if it's representative of your overall play, you will never be a winning player unless you change your game.
EDIT: ok, wait. On careful review, you're still a donk (and having played many a hand like a donk myself, I know 'em when I see 'em)... but I don't agree with all the stuff Estelle said... I don't want to see any CC member's titties.
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robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Because it's funny?
You forgot about men wearing dresses LMAO (and it is sheep, not goats).You're right though, another cracking thread hijacked.
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
Hey asshole. Do I know you? One hand out of 100,000 does not a donkey make. Disagree with the way I played the hand as you please, but if the ill informed rush to judgment is representative or the way you play, then you'd better take a look in a mirror.
Now, if you want to contibute something useful why don't you throw some water on your face, drink a cup of coffee and read through the thread so you can make some informed comments instead of relying on Joosebuck and estelle to do the thinking for you.:icon_stud