hum what do you think ? (1/2NL)

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feydreva

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Sep 19, 2007
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What would you have done here ????



Stacks:

* UTG with $4.98
* UTG+1 with $4.91
* MP1 with $1.30
* MP2 with $4.96
* CO with $1.72
* BTN with $6.19
* SB with $6.79
* BB with $5.00

hand.pl


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: pokerstars
* * Dealt to SB:A♠ Q♠
* * Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
* * $nowmobiler calls [$0.02]
* * 3 players fold.
* * CO calls [$0.02]
* * BTN calls [$0.02]
* * Hero raises $0.10 to $0.12
* * 1 players fold.
* * $nowmobiler raises $0.44 to $0.56
* * 2 players fold.
* * Hero calls [$0.44]
* * Total folds this street: 6
* * Potsize: $1.18
Flop:
* * 4♠ 3♠ 2♣
* * Hero bets [$0.60]
* * $nowmobiler raises $3.82 to $4.42 [ all-in ]

* * Hero ????? Straight draw (4 out, flush draw 9 out (35% to hit))


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Dwilius

Dwilius

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I think I don't like my hand preflop, now that you're here you are a favorite over kings. Throw it in.
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

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D'willius is right. I think he has a pocket pair and is trying to chase off straight and flush draws.

You're 50.5% to win against K/K (who is 47.7%).
Against smaller pairs (J/J-) you're closer to 60% to win.
 
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Dr_Dick

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I'm just interested, before the flop how did you think the hand was going to play out when you called a huge reraise of 4x your raise out of position with AQs...did you think about post flop play prior to making the call and if so how did you plan on playing against this raiser? The fact you are posting makes me think you did not work through post flop play prior to making the call. You just figured you have a decent hand, lets see a flop regardless of cost and we can work out those little post flop details later :)

I'm not criticizing, just curious. We are all in a poker forum trying to learn.
 
Last edited:
arkadiy

arkadiy

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You called a big raise pre-flop that you probably could've folded too,got lucky on the flop and are now a huge favortie against just about any hand.

Woops, I am dumb. I thought you hit he flush on the flop :D lol Either way, I still say call.
 
F

feydreva

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So, he had KK, and I missed the flush or the A or the 5

I checked afterwards for curiosity on pokerstove if it was OK to call, and it was profitable...

How did I think about it...
I agree with you, after his big re-raise, I knew he had top pair KK/QQ/JJ
I do not think someone with AA would have re-raise 4 time my raise, since there a lot of chance i do not stick around (with AA, he would have raise all in or just min raise I think,at least it s what I notice for most of the cases)
My AQ was suited, and i told myself, if the flop is really bad, I could just leave... if there is an A, I can stick around, if I have a flsuh draw, I can stick around too, depending how it goes
but i didn't think farther that that (i m still new to poker).

I saw the Flop.
suite draw (4 out)
flush draw (9 out)
Even an A would have make it (4 out)

So i called :)

Was it a bad thinking process ?

After thinking about it... Yeah.. I could have fold pre-flop... I need to work on that....
When I have a descned hand, and I raise... Some re-raising me is like "he eh do you dare do it" and depending on my hand, I call or re-raise.. I have hard time folding pre-flop with a descent hand
 
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Dr_Dick

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feydreva,

No big deal, ALL of us have been in the same situation, calling a huge preflop raise when we probably shouldn't. And there is no doubt I will do it again some day. My biggest weakness is I hate being rude, so instead of taking my time and thinking through a situation I end up calling.

Here is my thought process in your specific situation:

I have AQs and for whatever reason, I read the table that I can make a move and raise to 6xBB, OOP. Now the BB bumps it to ~24xBB, everyone folds around to me.

My thoughts, villain either has a big PP or is making a move with AK. But, I rule out AA or QQ, because I hold AQ. I also rule out AA, because as you pointed out AA probably does not reraise x4. No, villain is scared to see a flop for some reason. So that leaves KK,JJ,AK with AK being the outside chance, it is also a hefty scared reraise for KK, so I'm leaning towards JJ at this point.

So before I decide what to do, how do I see the hand playing out? I can go over the top, but I don't see AK or KK folding and both hands crush me. If he has JJ, I have an outside chance he folds but not likely enough to make the move. Going over the top we are playing for stacks preflop and I would rather avoid that with just AQs. So going over the top is out.

If I call how will it play out? Well ~60% of the time the flop will be dry and out of position there is no way I'm leading out given the strength villain showed. And villain will undoubtedly make a continuation bet and then my only play will be able to go over the top and hope he thinks I caught a set. Once again something I'm not really fond of doing.

And if I do hit the flop, what can I really do with it? If an A hits, I can't get overly aggressive. The pot is already huge, but I'm out of position. I would once again prefer not to check raise an A flop, and if I lead out and get called how aggressive can I get on the turn? While I'm thinking JJ this doesn't rule ouf AK, especially since I was called. And if I'm reraised I'm really screwed. That would be a situation where I have to curse poker karma, running into AK or AA while holding AQ. I would call the reraise.

So what about if I hit a Q? That is probably the best flop I can get outside a monster. Now only KK beats me, as AK would not have hit and JJ would be no good. I am actually more comfortable leading this flop than if an A hits.

Then there are the monster flops like AA,QQ,AQ, or 2 spades. Those I'm wiling to play for stacks, but how likely are those flops?

So while it took a while to type, during play this entire thought process takes only a few seconds. I put my opponent on KK,JJ, or AK and dump the hand. I realize it is not worth calling the reraise because even if I hit a flop I can't get overly aggressive and calling in hopes of hitting a monster is just not worth the investment.

In your case, you called and hit one of the best flops you could hope for and still lost.
 
S

switch0723

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your not counting your outs correctly, you have 9 flush outs, 3 straight outs, not 4, since you have counted the 5 of clubs already, you also only have 3 ace outs, since you have one in your hand. So that makes it 15 outs overall, which is PLENTY to call that all in with

Fold preflop though against someone who has limped, big raised utg, almost always reps a big pair
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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gotta call flop happily -- way +EV against even a range made up entirely of JJ+ -- then frown when the board bricks out
 
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feitr

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You should call this all day. You can be fairly certain you have 15 clean outs, and possibly 18. As it turned out, you were basically 50:50 to win the hand after the flop and since you were obviously getting much better than 1:1 odds to make the flop call this is definitely the correct move in the long term. And yea, for future reference, it is either 2NL or 0.01/0.02 NL. 1/2NL would imply that you are playing 200NL.
 
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