How bad was this?

M

mischman

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14/10/2

pokerstars Game #10383154895: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/06/11 - 13:42:13 (ET)
Table 'Apus III' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: DLR77 ($15 in chips)
Seat 2: Mashe ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 3: mischman ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 4: LpCook ($30.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Raiden66121 ($50.85 in chips)
Seat 6: Beraniste ($57.40 in chips)
Seat 7: DBL_J_22 ($60.15 in chips)
Seat 8: tenbob ($49 in chips)
Seat 9: bertel45 ($23.15 in chips)
mischman: posts small blind $0.25
LpCook: posts big blind $0.50
DLR77: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [Jc Jh]
Raiden66121: calls $0.50
Beraniste: raises $3 to $3.50
DBL_J_22 has timed out
DBL_J_22: folds
DBL_J_22 is sitting out
tenbob: folds
bertel45: folds
DLR77: folds
Mashe: folds
mischman: calls $3.25 <- Lets see a flop, i think this is the biggest mistake
LpCook: folds
Raiden66121: folds
*** FLOP *** [Th 6d 9d]
mischman: checks <- i dont know why i did this
Beraniste: bets $6
mischman: raises $6 to $12 <- See were we stand? Might be good
Beraniste: calls $6
*** TURN *** [Th 6d 9d] [Kh]
mischman: checks <- What do we beat?
Beraniste: checks
*** RIVER *** [Th 6d 9d Kh] [2h]
mischman: checks
Beraniste: bets $11
mischman: folds <-Nothing
Beraniste collected $30.90 from pot
Beraniste: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $32.50 | Rake $1.60
Board [Th 6d 9d Kh 2h]
Seat 1: DLR77 folded before Flop
Seat 2: Mashe (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mischman (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 4: LpCook (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Raiden66121 folded before Flop
Seat 6: Beraniste collected ($30.90)
Seat 7: DBL_J_22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: tenbob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bertel45 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
stormswa

stormswa

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lol

I agree with your analysis or your own hand. ;)
 
LuckyShark777

LuckyShark777

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u hit the nail on the head for this one Misch
 
tosborn

tosborn

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I'm not sure what to think about villains line Misch. It very well could have been an attempt to steal the (presumed) dead money in the pot at a tight table. Although you didn't say anything about any of the villains I'm going to assume that it is a fairly solid/Taggish type table that is fairly common.

Let's take a look at the hand from Villains perspective.

14/10/2

PokerStars Game #10383154895: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/06/11 - 13:42:13 (ET)
Table 'Apus III' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: DLR77 ($15 in chips)
Seat 2: Mashe ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 3: mischman ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 4: LpCook ($30.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Raiden66121 ($50.85 in chips)
Seat 6: Beraniste ($57.40 in chips)
Seat 7: DBL_J_22 ($60.15 in chips)
Seat 8: tenbob ($49 in chips)
Seat 9: bertel45 ($23.15 in chips)
mischman: posts small blind $0.25
LpCook: posts big blind $0.50
DLR77: posts big blind $0.50
(Possible Dead money = $1.25)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [Jc Jh]
Raiden66121: calls $0.50
Beraniste: raises $3 to $3.50
DBL_J_22 has timed out
DBL_J_22: folds
DBL_J_22 is sitting out
tenbob: folds
bertel45: folds
DLR77: folds
Mashe: folds
mischman: calls $3.25 (That is o.k. "I've got position")
LpCook: folds
Raiden66121: folds
*** FLOP *** [Th 6d 9d]
mischman: checks (The flop didn't hit him)
Beraniste: bets $6 (I'll try to bluff)
mischman: raises $6 to $12 (Uh Oh! He's got a hand)
Beraniste: calls $6 (I've gone this far and I still have the diamond draw, I'll call)
*** TURN *** [Th 6d 9d] K♥
mischman: checks (Good, either the K scared him or he was bluffing)
Beraniste: checks (FREE CARD! YEAH!)
*** RIVER *** [Th 6d 9d Kh] 2♥
mischman: checks (Still scared)
Beraniste: bets $11 (Let's buy this!)
mischman: folds
Beraniste collected $30.90 from pot
Beraniste: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $32.50 | Rake $1.60
Board [Th 6d 9d Kh 2h]
Seat 1: DLR77 folded before Flop
Seat 2: Mashe (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mischman (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 4: LpCook (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Raiden66121 folded before Flop
Seat 6: Beraniste collected ($30.90)
Seat 7: DBL_J_22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: tenbob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bertel45 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Villain plays the hand like an Ax or diamond draw. I don't think he has two pair or a set. And unless he was playing Kx very strange, I think you have him beat. I think the majority of the time, as played villain is holding a Ten. Possibly AT? Not sure, but, I think I call this after looking at it.

I will say that I would definately let this go given the time that you have to make a decision.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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mischman: checks <- What do we beat?
Beraniste: checks
Let me put it this way: What CAN he have? I'll return to this.

I don't mind cold-calling preflop. Stacks are relatively deep so there's good set-value to be had, and you surely don't mind seeing a rag flop come off either.

The checkraise is awful. You already know that though so I'll leave you alone about it.

The turn check, imo, is fine. Giving a free card is dangerous, but so is the fact that he called your flop checkraise. He has "something" and one of those somethings could be AK.

... but then he doesn't bet. That almost certainly rules out AK. Surely he wouldn't check behind the turn with a hand like that given how drawy the flop is? No, can't be a king. He can at best have a pair/two pair.

Surely he doesn't check behind with a set on the turn. Board drawy.

Hopefully he doesn't check behind with two pair on the turn. Board drawy. Besides, what two pair would he have? KT isn't really in his range. Nor is T9 or any other weird combo like that.

So that leaves a draw, AT, A9, possibly AQ (if he peels the flop loosely with overcards - some people do) and QQ.

AT, A9, QQ and various combodraws are probably the ones most squarely in his range.

Folding the river is not good.

Edit: Checking the river, however, can be good against the right opponent. Imo, people don't induce enough bluffs in no-limit and many NL players can take a page from the limit players' book on that one.
 
M

mischman

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Tosborn, raising $3 UTG to win an extra BB is not smart and i dont think he had crap and was doing that. I gave PAHud stats. Position is not acting first on the flop.
 
tosborn

tosborn

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Tosborn, raising $3 UTG to win an extra BB is not smart and i dont think he had crap and was doing that. I gave PAHud stats. Position is not acting first on the flop.

Missed the PAHud stats.

I didn't mean that he was raising preflop with crap. I meant that his range could have opened just a little. Ax hearts or AT A9 fit his line perfectly like FPaulson says.

Edit: What I meant by "I've got position" Is that villain would have position, not you.
 
M

mischman

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For some reason, the huge UTg raise scared me.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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Oh, he didn't usually raise that much?
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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This is probably a dumb question, but 14/10/2 are hero's or villain's stats?
 
M

mischman

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Why would i give my stats? How does that help us play agaisnt villian?
 
tosborn

tosborn

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How many hands did you have on him Misch?

I use Poker Office so his stats are:
14 = VP$IP
10% = Peflop Raise
2 = Total Agression

Correct?

One more thing. I think villain would have value bet the river if he had the straight or flush.

Edit: Thanks for the clarification Storm
 
Last edited:
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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AT, A9, QQ and various combodraws are probably the ones most squarely in his range.

do we really think a 14/10 is raising 7BBs UTG+1 with a UTG limper with AT or A9? i'm pretty skeptical.
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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Why would i give my stats? How does that help us play agaisnt villian?

Um, maybe cause that effects how he sees you? You know, like in poker, when you take stuff like that into consideration...
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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do we really think a 14/10 is raising 7BBs UTG+1 with a UTG limper with AT or A9? i'm pretty skeptical.
ATs is surely in the 10% range; whether or not

a) he adjusts his range based on position, and
b) Misch actually has an adequate number of hands on him (>100 or so) to know that these stats are OK,

I don't know.

Whatever hand he has, he has played it weirdly at some point. Raising 6xBB is weird on its own; why can't that signify a weird hand?
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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1. Lead the flop for 2/3 pot. If he calls, I'm c/c to get a cheap showdown.
I think folding the river is a mistake.

2. I can see higher pairs than yours playing like this but I think it's very unlikely. Here's why... You've shown a lot of strength by C/R the flop which is why I think he checked the turn. If he had KK or AA I think he re-raises on the flop. If he had AK, I really think he would bet something on the turn. I think his bet on the river is pretty weak and he's trying to buy it -- I don't really see this as a value bet. It's entirely possible that he has JJ here as well. The only thing I'm really concerned about his possibly having on the river is QQ. I can't give him a backdoor flush based on the betting, nor can I give him a set. If he did have a set of 10s, he's a very sneaky bastard.
 
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