Help With A Hand; AQ Donkfest?

C

ColdDeckCity

Rock Star
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
122
Can i please get some help with this hand.

The Hand:

Stacks:
MP1 with $44.00
MP2 with $100.00
MP3 with $57.97
CO with $157.10
BTN with $32.06
SB with $106.83
BB with $101.96
UTG with $26.21
UTG+1 with $98.80
UTG+2 with $77.85
hand.pl


Dealt to UTG+1:A♠ Q♥
Sklansky group 3
Preflop:
1 players fold.
UTG+1 raises [$3.50 USD]
2 players fold.
MP2 raises [$7 USD]
5 players fold.
UTG+1 calls [$3.50 USD]
Total folds this street: 8
Potsize: $15.5
Flop:
Q♣ 9♣ 8♥
UTG+1 checks.
MP2 bets [$9 USD]
UTG+1 raises [$22 USD]
MP2 calls [$13 USD]
Potsize: $59.5
Turn:
5♥
UTG+1 bets [$45 USD]
MP2 is all-in.
UTG+1 is all-in.
Potsize: $104.5
River:
3♥
UTG+1 shows a pair of Queens:
A♠ Q♥
MP2 shows a pair of Aces:
A♣ A♥
MP2 wins $1.20 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Aces.
MP2 wins $196.10 USD from the main pot with a pair of Aces.


The Analysis:

I have noted before of the villain that he can make strange package hands raises with crap which is why i called the pre flop bet. I check raised the flop as it was draw heavy and he could have KTs etc, the with blank turn card there is so much in there and i feel that yes he could have AA or KK but because of the small pre flop raise as well as the weak continuation bet / flop aggression i felt he could be drawing or even pocket JJ with a gutshot. A part of me wanted to check the turn for pot control but the other part of me did want him to draw for free if he was drawing. Can i get some adivce about this type of situation? I know you should never stack off with just one pair so how could i have changed this. I want to emphasize that the villain is tight but can really make so strange package plays

Thanks
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

Visionary
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
731
Reverse implied odds hands can be very tricky to play post flop to a 3bet. Post flop I would probably check/call the flop. If you dont want to go broke with one pair you need to consider lines that will control the pot size, as a checkraise does not.
 
C

ColdDeckCity

Rock Star
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
122
But where and how do you draw the line of

1 I don't want to go broke vs an over pair

and

2 I don't want them to suck out for free?
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Total posts
7,594
Awards
1
Similar hand, different limit.

Tenbob's advice on that hand was:
Without reads the answer is quite simple.

We DO NOT, play for stacks in a multi-way pot with TPTK. If we start to do this, then we become very very readable, and it makes sense for our opponents to call almost every single one of our raises with [big draws], because of the implied odds that we are spewing. If this was a tournament the discussion changes lots, but its not, this is a deep stacked decision.

I agree with TB.
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

Visionary
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
731
There was a good section about this kind of situation in the Harrington cash books. If I can recall correctly he basically says in these kind of situations you have conflicting objectives. You want to avoid going broke with one pair, but you would also like to charge draws. Which is a bigger mistake going broke with 1 pair or potentially giving a free card, assuming they even actually have a draw, or if they even hit thier draw.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Fold preflop if opponent is solid. We're out of position with a hand that isn't going to hit enough flops for us to continue profitably.

As played, don't raise flop. Just call. Bloating this pot is insane. I might consider folding this if our opponent fires more than once and he's nitty. But you should rarely be folding TPTK in a 3-bet pot because we're not offering implied odds (since the stack to pot ratio is a lot smaller). And this is a 3-bet pot, so you shouldn't be worried about your opponent having some crap like 67 and sucking out.

Tenbob's post doesn't apply here since we're not multi-way, and we're in a 3-bet pot (so we're not playing as deep, even if the 3-bet is a little small).
 
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