The easiest "tough" fold of my life...

WildBullshark

WildBullshark

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Note: The stack sizes are not exact, but a close enough estimate from my observations before the hand started)

$2/5 NL Hold'em Ring Game (9 handed at Casino Niagara)

Player 1 (SB) ~ $80 ~ very loose, passive player, big loser for the night
Player 2 (BB) ~ $150 ~calling station with weak holdings, loser for the night
Player 3 () ~ $250 ~ very weak out of position, folds preflop frequently
Player 4 () ~ $150 ~ not enough info
Player 5 () ~ $450 ~ good solid player, strongest opponent
Player 6 () ~ $600 ~ tight player, but steaming after a few bad beats
HERO () ~ $575
VILLAIN () ~ $400 ~ very loose, I feel I have a very good read on this player and have trapped him in a few spots already, he is the fish at the table who has been running very good thus far.
Player 9 () ~ $400 ~ not enough info

Player 3 () calls BB
Player 4 () folds
Player 5 () calls BB
Player 6 () folds
Hero () ~ I raise to $18 with AsAc as I know this is a very loose table and with the right flop I can bust more than one person, as I've already gained a maniac image...I had showed a few big bluffs in the last few rounds of play that made half the table stand up!)
VILLAN () ~ calls $18 instantly as he does almost every hand in position, his range of hands is so wide, I'm going to depend on other info after the flop to really put him on a hand
Player 9 () ~ folds
Player 1 () folds the SB
Player 2 () folds the BB
Player 3 () folds
Player 5 () calls $12 more, I'm putting him on a mid pocket pair (5s through 9s) or a stronger ace (A10 suited-AQ offsuit) based on his aggressiveness preflop with anything higher, he also doesn't play suited connectors or rags out of position (I have a lot of experience with this player!!!). He would be folding any two unpaired cards to a reraise, and raising first into the pot with AK or any pair > than 9s).

Summary of Preflop action: 3 people to the flop ... pot = 18*3 + 2 + 5 + 5 = $66

Flop [Ah][5h][5s]

Player 5 () ~ bets $25
HERO () ~ I raise to $75 hoping that he has a strong ace and VILLAIN picked up a draw or has a weak 5 for 3 of a kind
VILLAIN () ~ flat calls $75
Player 5 () ~ folds so right there I know a mid pair higher than 5's or an AdXx was folded, but the higher probability is the mid pair from my experience with the player.

Summary of Flop: 2 people to the turn ... pot = 66 + 25 + 2*75 = $241

Turn is a [5c] for a board of [Ah][5h][5s][5c]

HERO () ~ almost throws up, and then checks...lol
VILLAIN () ~ eyes widen and look down at my chips then checks behind...so I almost throw up again...VILLAIN made this play twice earlier when they turned very strong hands...once when he turned a set of kings, the second time when he turned his gutshot straight. That and the fact he bluffs frequently in position when it is checked to him (hence me trapping him a couple of times earlier).

River is a [Jh] for a board of [Ah][5h][5s][5c][Jh]

HERO () ~ something told me the player had an ace in his hand based on the flop action, but I couldn't commit myself, my read from the turn indicated he hit GIN...so I checked my aces full.
VILLAIN () ~ disappointedly bets out $30.
HERO () ~ I go into the tank for like 2 seconds, but everyone seems very interested in my hand. I look to the VILLAIN and tell him he only had one out on the flop and was supposed to go broke, and then muck my aces face up...
VILLAIN () shows his hand [Ad][5d] for quads, and tells me I played the hand poorly out loud to everyone.

Any opinions on how I played the hand...
 
pantin007

pantin007

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you could not play the hand any better
u bet the flop as u should{a good amount as well}
u bet a decent amount on the flop,he was never getting away from the boat
u checked the turn going with ur reads on this player
u fold the river which was the best play in this situation
u could not have played the hand better
he played the hand bad calling with ace 5 preflop
 
zachvac

zachvac

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Obviously you had a read and I'd need to be almost sure that I was beat before laying it down. He's giving you 9:1 on the river and the one time he has the A thinking your check meant weak (it did) and that you only had maybe a pocket pair or something, you're going to feel very stupid. Obviously you had a good read though and you played it exactly correct (bet when you were ahead, check-fold when behind).
 
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W

wreckoning

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Cool fold. There is just one thing that does not seem to fit to me. You say he gave you a tell on the turn that made you believe he had the last five. But where was his tell when he flopped a full house? You said you were hoping he had a draw or weak five for trips, when actually he had a hand strong enough to just go all in on the flop or take a sizable bet.

Now I still think a small flop raise is better than a larger one, because you want the strong player to overcall with an ace if he has one. And in this particular situation, the weak player's outs are so few that you can afford to see the turn a little cheaper. But I'm sure you can understand how in a different situation it might have been beneficial to catch the weak player's tell on the flop when you were still in excellent shape and can hammer him hard.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

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My only question I have for you is why didn't you call? You're getting 9-1. You say the villian was very loose. What made you overthink and decide he had the 4th 5 and not a flush or a boat?
 
T

tuff_gong777

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I agree with the call here... 9-1!

After he said you played badly... Did you offer to share a carrot with him!
 
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Bombjack

Bombjack

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I realise this is basically a brag post, but raise more pre-flop - just pot it, or even bet a bit more than pot - $30 seems about right.

As for turn / river, I probably just bet the turn, because you're getting value from worse Aces, which form a decent part of his range, although checking and hoping a flush draw or lower pair will bluff at it seems OK too. Unlikely he has a lower pair after bet / raise on the flop though.

As for the river, I think you HAVE to bet to get value from an Ace, or maybe even a flush if he's bad enough. If you're checking, it's because you're hoping he'll bluff at the pot, since you've made it look like you don't have an Ace.

Folding is terrible IMO getting such good odds, when he will definitely be value-betting if he does have the case Ace, or even making a weak bluff.

I mean, really, how many of the hands he calls with pre-flop contain the case 5, rather than the case Ace?
 
Schatzdog

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I call the river here. The live games I play are so soft that this bet is the case A most of the time.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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They don't even have to be soft games. If they had the case Ace I think a good player would almost always value-bet this river.
 
J

jeffred1111

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River is a call being layed a gazillion to one. And not posting results is best IMHO since now every post is going to be results oriented + physical tells should not dictate the way you decide to play a hand as much as compliment betting/action patterns.

I also raise preflop a lot more since you've said it's loose and probably more on the flop too since he has Ax a lot and maybe even crap such as KK, QQ, JJ that he won't be willing to part with. From what I've gathered, raising to 30 here might still net you two cold calls.

And when you lay down your boat and opponent goes into a rage, I picture Teddy in Rounders berating Matt for laying down A5 for two pairs against his FH ;)
 
R

red_dawn_28

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If this is indicative of your play I think you are folding too much. You are probably winning 70%+ at SD overall but that is too high. He has to have quads more than 90% of the time for this fold to be correct. On top of that he would likely make this bet with an A figuring it’s a split at worst (with the case A) and there is a minute amount of FE if you will put him on quads. This is a lose a lot of $$ hand just like set over set and you lost the minimum but in the long run this is a –EV play. ESPECIALLY against an opponent you describe as VERY LOOSE, RUNNING GOOD.
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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Ditto what everyone else has said:
- raise like double that pf
- awful laydown
- should not be posted in HA this is pure bragging (which is fine as you have something to brag about, but there is a "brags and bad beats" section perfect for this.

Boy I wish I could see the hand history for this.. :D
 
P

phatjose

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physical tells should not dictate the way you decide to play a hand as much as compliment betting/action patterns.

I have to disagree with the physical tells part. As someone who plays a lot live, I can tell you that physical tells have saved me a lot of money. For instance, a guy I play with on a regular basis has a habit of always scratching his nose/face when he has a monster. Just because you are getting good odds doesn't mean anything if you are absolutely certain you are beat anyway.

Fwiw, I don't lay this down anyway, and especially not if I were in the one casino near my house that pays out the bad beat pot to Aces full.
 
J

jeffred1111

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If you never look him up with good odds when he scratches his nose, maybe he knows you knows he does that and does it with bluffs also.

But I'm overthinking it since you probably 1/2 NL and players are thinking "OMH, me has set! Let's go broke" instead of putting you on a range and thinking on his perceived range according to his play.

And, BTW, betting patterns will also indicate a monster along with action, unless he plays like a complete retard, so physical tells should be complimentary.
 
Tobmeister

Tobmeister

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I think this is one of those situations where is was the right fold, but a very bad one
- 9-1
- you trusted your read on him earlier, why not now? as in why didnt you put him on the flush???
 
vanquish

vanquish

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on second thought this is prolly a really poor level
 
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