Do you do anything different?

X

xdmanx007

Legend
Still running a bit bad on Paradise but that isn't why I post this.
Info I had on my opoonent 50percent voluntarily seeing the flop. So he defines the word calling station
GAME #1051679978 - (BLINDS $0.25/$0.50) NO LIMIT TEXAS HOLD'EM - 2005/10/26-22:44:08.1 (CST)
Table "Manora Bay" (real money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: goodfella-im ($49.00 in chips)
Seat 2: xdmanx007 ($45.00 in chips)
Seat 3: sawred ($43.75 in chips)
Seat 4: dmibear ($138.00 in chips)
Seat 5: Jabronislaw ($48.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Irvfour ($79.75 in chips)
Seat 7: PHILIL ($17.50 in chips)
Seat 8: bluff_king ($54.00 in chips)
Seat 9: slver_arowana ($79.75 in chips)
Seat 10: #1 king ($15.25 in chips)
xdmanx007: Post Small Blind ($0.25)
sawred : Post Big Blind ($0.50)
Dealt to xdmanx007 [ Kh ]
Dealt to xdmanx007 [ Ah ]
dmibear : Fold
Jabronislaw: Fold
Irvfour : Fold
PHILIL : Call ($0.50)
bluff_king: Call ($0.50)
slver_arowana: Call ($0.50)
#1 king : Call ($0.50)
goodfella-im: Fold
xdmanx007: Raise ($2.50)
sawred : Fold
PHILIL : Fold
bluff_king: Fold
slver_arowana: Fold
#1 king : Call ($2.25)
*** FLOP *** : [ 9h Ac 6c ]
xdmanx007: Bet ($7)
#1 king : Call ($7)
*** TURN *** : [ 9h Ac 6c ] [ 7h ]
xdmanx007: Bet ($5.50)
#1 king : Call All-in ($5.50)
*** RIVER *** : [ 9h Ac 6c 7h ] [ Ad ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $31 | Rake: $1.50
Board: [ 9h Ac 6c 7h Ad ]
goodfella-im didn't bet (folded)
xdmanx007 lost $15.25 (showed hand) [ Kh Ah ] (three of a kind, aces)
sawred lost $0.50 (folded)
dmibear didn't bet (folded)
Jabronislaw didn't bet (folded)
Irvfour didn't bet (folded)
PHILIL lost $0.50 (folded)
bluff_king lost $0.50 (folded)
slver_arowana lost $0.50 (folded)
#1 king bet $15.25, collected $31, net +$15.75 (showed hand) [ 6d 6s ] (a full house, sixes full of aces)
-----------------------------------------------------
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
hey,

That's just unlucky. You'd never lay it down.

Because the guy calls everything it makes it almost impossible to put him on a hand. The board is the worst for you because it looks great and anyone is going to bet that out.

I'd say you played it right. He isn't a great player and you showed him a hand. (T2P) Pay him and get on with it.
 
nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
you post great hands, glad to see i'm not the only one stuff like that happens to

i don't see how you could have layed it down, especially considering you were the one doing the betting, and he was the one calling with the best hand (unless i misread it), his only questionable one being his preflop call, but he did have a pair. the question to me seems to be if you overplayed it, and i certainly wouldn't say that you did. you definatly bet more agressivly then i do, but most of the time, with a solid hand, and no realistic draws on the board, that's probably a good strategy. i mean, what could you have done, folded the AK suited preflop in the small blind? personally i'd just be glad he didn't start the hand with more money. rough hand, but i'm guessing you'll survive.

-n
 
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robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Is it possible to defend against trips? Recently I had AK, with AK3 flop - bet to the end, and he had 33. There wasn't a better possible flop he could have had, but you cant lay down 2 pair, just on the remote possibility can you. I've been done by trips 5 or 6 tims last week - can't remember last time I flopped them myself.
 
C

colin_147

Guest
This is one situation where neither player can be criticised. You have every right to think you were in front and just go unlucky

IMO you were lucky not to be up against someone with a bigger stack, otherwise it could have been painful
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
Wow! I didn't even see it coming. I thought you had him for sure. He just had a lucky flop. :frown:
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
actually against a bigger stack I would have played it different. I was quite comfortable wagering what he had left on the hand. If we were even on chips I would have most likely checked the turn.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
You may as well just push the flop if you're gonna bet over half your remaining stack.

You lose your money anyway, but committing yourself like you did isn't so great.
 
C

chicubs1616

Guest
Instead of leading the flop with a pot sized bet, I would have bet out $4-$5 or even checked hoping to go for a check-raise. Many times you are not up against a set here (usually a weaker ace). You got unfortunate this time that you ran into a flopped set where he made a bad call preflop (he wasn't getting set value for his call). It's very hard to get away from Top Pair Top Kicker (TPTK) is this situation...IMO
 
C

colin_147

Guest
chicubs1616 said:
Instead of leading the flop with a pot sized bet, I would have bet out $4-$5 or even checked hoping to go for a check-raise. Many times you are not up against a set here (usually a weaker ace). You got unfortunate this time that you ran into a flopped set where he made a bad call preflop (he wasn't getting set value for his call). It's very hard to get away from Top Pair Top Kicker (TPTK) is this situation...IMO

Hey chicubs,

Nice post. I was just wondering how you feel he made a bad call pre-flop with a medium PP? I see you mention he wasnt getting value for the call but heads up its not such a bad call, and he actually goes in pre-flop favourite
 
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chicubs1616

Guest
I was just wondering how you feel he made a bad call pre-flop with a medium PP? I see you mention he wasnt getting value for the call but heads up its not such a bad call, and he actually goes in pre-flop favourite

Yes, in this instance he goes in as a small favorite against AKs, but it is almost a 50-50 situation. Generally a good strategy for small-medium pocket pairs is to limp or call a small raise in a pot with many players for set value. Generally, most of the time, especially in a cash game, you want to try and win big pots by flopping a set with a small pp. In this situation I would personally limp in with the 66 as the opponenet did here, but I would probably throw it away after the raise.
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
Right preflop this donk was calling regardless, as far as the flop goes pushing the extra 5.5 at the time would have simply save a bit of time. I bet the pot to protect against the flush draw when he called I knew I was calling his 5.5 if I checked the turn so I just bet it. FYI cubbies is correct small pockets are not hands you should be calling big preflop raises with especially when you will be headsup against the raiser.
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
Speak of the devil,

My two pair just got cracked by a small set. In the BB and hit the flop for middle pair. He makes the set on the flop and checks to me. I bet out and he calls. The turn gives me two pair and he pushes in on me as the board now has a straight draw. I put him on TPTK so I call. Felted.

Just a side question here and maybe this could be a new thread, but I play a TAG style and am finding it difficult to get action on my good hands because I have good patience to wait for good hands. So when I come in I am usually rasing and it's pretty obvious I have a decent hand. Can anyone give me examples of what changing gears really means and how to do it effectively? I have read some articles but don't have practical examples of how it's done. Is it mainly loosening up or changing betting patterns or maybe both?

Thanks
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Hard to say without knowing what hands you play (and how you play them). General advice on this is really difficult to give, but... Well, for instance, start raising some of the hands you'd normally limp with. Sometimes limp with hands you'd normally raise with. That's usually all it takes to throw them off their read on you.

Don't overdo it, though. "Sometimes" is something like one time out of five, or so.

But, again, giving specific advice on a general situation without knowing your game at all is hardly possible at all, so take what I say with a grain of salt. :)
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
Well depends what limits and games you play. Or more simply put the level of your competition. Against idiots no need to disguise hands. Against tough players taking a calculated risk and limping with a big pair hoping someone behind you will raise is a good option. Most of the time it is a matter of figuring out how much to bet and that totally depends on your opponents.
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
I play mostly .10/.25 and .25/.50 NL ring games.

I play hands from position and generally play premium stuff (AK, AQ, AJ, A-10, and all the big pockets. Sometimes suited connectors but this depends on position and opponents and then small pockets looking for sets.)

I like to be raising and pushing around rather than calling but obviously this depends on oppponents and the texture of the flop.

The main problem is I'll sit and wait for a good hand and then enter the pot raising 3-4XBB. Sometimes just 2X. So anyone who has bothered to notice can immediately put me on a strong hand. Looking at it from my opponents position it is quite easy to read me and play around me.

I see what you're saying about the standard of my opponents. If they are weak then ABC will do. I have made enough at these levels to move up again and I figure I will be moving into some decent players and want my deceptive/changing gear ability more developed.

Do you think loosening up is the answer and maybe playing a wider range? I just think my play is a bit pedestrian and predictable.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
xdmanx007 said:
Right preflop this donk was calling regardless, as far as the flop goes pushing the extra 5.5 at the time would have simply save a bit of time. I bet the pot to protect against the flush draw when he called I knew I was calling his 5.5 if I checked the turn so I just bet it. FYI cubbies is correct small pockets are not hands you should be calling big preflop raises with especially when you will be headsup against the raiser.

Yet this Donk had to put you on a top 10 starting pre-flop hand with the bet you had made of 3-4XBB(predictable and around the norm).
AA's
KK's
QQ's
AK
JJ's
10's
9's
8's
AQ
7's

Yet he called with a Majority playable hand. Then factor into a few things, #1 Predictability(maybe the guy called so he isn't so predictable)
#2 He was pot committed(married to the pot syndrome).
#3 Pocket 6's aren't a small pair but yet they aren't a medium pair either. I like to call these the bubble pair because of it. They are great to raise pre-flop when it hasn't been raised(which he should have done since he was on the button).
#4 He Figured since he was short stacked why not call, if nothing falls on the flop then it is an easy fold.
#5 Would he have been any less of a donkey if he had a top 10 starting pre-flop hand? Especially if he had pocket 9's?
#6 You had to put him on something(what did you think he had for starting cards when he called your pre-flop bet?) You had to put him on something.
#7 If you didn't put him on something, you didn't play the oppenent and just fired away at the pot.

Now since this guy knows you were coming out with a top 10 starting pre-flop hand. There was only 2 hands that could have beat him once the flop came. Pocket AA's and Pocket 9's, making that a 20% of you having this pre-flop starting hand. To sit here and birate the poor guy cause he called and you didn't think what he may have after the flop. Did you honestly think you were going to get a call by someone holding a rag hand? At least he called with a majority playable hand not something like 9.6 suited.
Just be glad he didn't have more $$$ cause you didn't see it coming and didn't read even the remote possibility that he could even had pocket 9's. Just fired away like it was no tommorow(your mistake).
 
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