Buy in cash games MAX amount?

AZE

AZE

DC Coach
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Total posts
136
Hey board,
I'm new to the forums, and relatively new to poker (a few months in). I'm here trying to improve my game.

In a recent thread, there was a comment by "robwhufc" advising the other member that it wasn't such a good idea for him [the other member] to be buying in the cash (ring) game for the minimum amount ($45'ish on a $.50/$1).

I wanted to get some insight on this, is it really best to buy in for the full amount as opposed to the min / middle?

Barry Greenstein writes:
"(1). There is a mathmatical edge when you have fewer chips than are needed to call all bets, since you can't be driven out of a hand when you are all-in. This is especially powerfull in no-limit... where it is much easier to play a short stack.

....

(3). You will not be targeted as a big winner, so others won't be afraid to play with you

(4). It is easier to limit losses

(5). When your stack is so short that you don't have enough money to play a hand you won't start with a weak hand...

(6). You have a better chance of keeping a hit-and-run artist at the table...

...

(8) If you are on a short bankroll, you must protect yourself from going broke."
For large buy-in's argument he states:
"maximum play on hands", "attract more opponents", "pick up more loose chips", "make it difficult for people to tell when you're losing", "play drawing hands more profitably"
In live cash-games I generally buy in for what I can afford to lose / get my hands on. But on FT (the only site I'm playing on so far) I only have a $100 bankroll. I made the foolish mistake of buying in for $100 my first time (should've just put up 500 and got some value out of that bonus) and lost it, then put up another hundred - and I've been struggling just keeping it even... I play in the .10/.25 N/L games, and I generally buy in for $10 ($15 shy of the max)... Obviously it hasn't been working out for me... or at least my bankroll hasn't been able to fade the suck-outs mixed with my bad plays. I'm trying to turn my $100 into a decent bankroll (500/1,000) before getting into any 1/2 NL games... I'd really love to be able to do it without having to add on 400 out of pocket.

What are your thoughts on this subject?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
First thing I want to say is that you should read some of our articles (see the tabs on the top right). You're playing with way too high of a percent of your bankroll, and you won't ride the swings out. Even $1000 isn't nearly enough for 1/2.

The suggested portion you play with is %5 of your bankroll, but I've been playing with even less - around %2 to play it safe.

As for your question regarding buying in for the max or the min, well there are advantages for both. You pretty much listed them all. I personally play with the maximum every time because I'm fairly confident in my playing ability, and play the implied odds a lot. I like to win the maximum when I find myself in a real favorable situation.
 
AZE

AZE

DC Coach
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Total posts
136
I'm playing at the .10/.25 tables... Not the 1/2 (which I assume you thought I was playing at)... even such, the $10 I buy-in with at the .10/.25 is still 10% of my bankroll, which is still too much... I just feel like the games at the .5/.10 are too low, and the players too wild for me to deal with, without losing all of my hair...
I'm hell-bent on getting really good at poker, and making $, and I have no doubts that I can.

What should I do? What advice?

PS; ChuckTs - hit me up on AIM - "siqazfuq", I'd love to chat with someone who is poker savvy. I haven't built up enough of a network yet, I'm just starting to do that.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Yeah, 25NL is still way too high for your $100 bankroll. Even if you're buying in short.

$100 is pretty hard to start a bankroll with, but trust me when I say that you don't want to play underrolled. The beats hit you like a hammer in the face, and you start blaming the site for being rigged :p

If you only have $100 to spare, I'd start by playing some small sit n go tournaments until you've got about $200, then if you're set on playing ring games, play 10NL for the max. buyin, or play 25NL with the minimum. Grinding it up can be a bitch, but it needs to be done if you want anything close to a consistent winrate.

Otherwise, I'd deposit more - like $200 or $300 if you can. That way you could skip the tiny micros, though 25NL really isn't much different from 10NL and under.

And sorry, but I don't use AIM.
 
edge-t

edge-t

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Total posts
365
The suggested portion you play with is %5 of your bankroll, but I've been playing with even less - around %2 to play it safe.

You're a bankroll nit... but it's good advice. THat way, you'll have a lower chance of going bust.
 
edge-t

edge-t

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Total posts
365
I'm guilty too... I'm playing $25NL with 50 buy-ins. :D

AZE: I started with $50, built it up, grinding over 6 months. Not a stellar performance, but I'm a little risk-averse. Especially when you're just starting out, it's good to play slgihtly over-rolled, learn the game and move up when the bankroll says ok.
 
AZE

AZE

DC Coach
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Total posts
136
Tried your advice, played a $5 90-player tournament, I got 6th (was getting blinded out and shoved with KQ, lost to 77).. $24.75 for that, but it took like 2 hours. I guess I'll keep cracking at these small MTT's and SnG's.. Let's hope I run good.
 
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