AKo SB; Flopped TPTK UTG

Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
Dennisa - 25/7/0.4, 70 hands
Donnie3000 - 23/13/1.5, 20 hands

I know I need to improve my blind play. I hate playing in the blinds because I know I'll be in early position on the flop. Anyway, I just call the min-raise from the SB hoping to flop something.

I flop TPTK, but with 2 hearts on board. I make a near-pot bet UTG to try to gain info. Passive "Dennisa" calls and most likely is chasing hearts or has a weaker Ace. Donnie's pot-sized raise is a bit confusing. Why wouldn't he just call with such strength ahead of him? Does he have a set, 2 pair, or just a strong desire to chase his draw?


pokerstars GAME #10578912691: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/06/23 - 11:47:34 (ET)
Table 'Sponde' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: Mr. M. Tal ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Grafrolf ($1.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Donnie3000 ($44.85 in chips)
Seat 5: rds4sdr ($13.85 in chips)
Seat 6: MrSticker66 ($29.15 in chips)
Seat 7: dennisa ($20.30 in chips)
Seat 8: timanil ($14.90 in chips)
MrSticker66: posts small blind $0.10
dennisa: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Ac Kd]
timanil: folds
Mr. M. Tal: folds
Grafrolf: folds
Donnie3000: raises $0.25 to $0.50
rds4sdr: folds
MrSticker66: calls $0.40
dennisa: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [9c 8h Ah]
MrSticker66: bets $1.25
dennisa: calls $1.25
Donnie3000: raises $2.75 to $4
MrSticker66: ..........
 
Last edited:
J

joeeagles

Guest
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Total posts
1,114
Tough spot there Stick, the old "don't get broke on top pair" comes to mind. The hand is complicated by the fact its 3 ways. I think I'd just smooth call for now, see what dennisa does, and try to check/call this lightly. Based on what the turn card is, you might have a better idea on what's going on if its not a heart. Donnie might be on a draw as you say and in that case you are failing to protect your hand, but if you reraise now this pot is going to get way to big and you might not be able to escape anymore if action gets too suspect to stay in with only TP/TK.

As you say it could be a set and he's protecting against the flush, in which case you're WB and almost drawing dead. This is a complicated hand, it sure doesn't help being OOP. I'd try to call this down lightly, even if I know its pretty weak.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Total posts
4,274
Awards
1
You need some info. Call and insta bet 3/4 pot on the turn. If he just calls, check it down if possible. If he reraises again let it go.
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

Legend
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,378
I'd also consider Donnie can put you all-in, but you also only have $30 at the table.

See if the turn brings a heart, see what he does when he sees the turn. I'd call him until I saw the turn, if it wasn't a heart I'd make a pot sized bet hoping he didn't hit a set or 2 pair.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Joined
May 22, 2005
Total posts
10,637
Awards
1
The part about playing the blinds is correct. Reraise on the AK. It's only good preflop. Once that flop hits it could tank. If you had reraised him PF you would have cleared out any wannabe chases with their connectors or suited cards. Then you would control the board with that flop.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
I'm with FourDogs. The raise may mean he's on an ace and trying to chase flush drawers himself.


The last time I ran into this at $25NL the reraiser had flopped a unexpected straight (68T or something, calling my preflop raise w/79o). This was 3 way too, so maybe he's flopped a set, or at least 2 pair which he's trying to protect.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
OK. The turn brings top 2 pair, but I'm out of position and not too comfortable. Villian goes all in after it's checked to him. Can we laydown here or is this a must-call at these stakes?

POKERSTARS GAME #10578912691: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/06/23 - 11:47:34 (ET)
Table 'Sponde' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: Mr. M. Tal ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Grafrolf ($1.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Donnie3000 ($44.85 in chips)
Seat 5: rds4sdr ($13.85 in chips)
Seat 6: MrSticker66 ($29.15 in chips)
Seat 7: dennisa ($20.30 in chips)
Seat 8: timanil ($14.90 in chips)
MrSticker66: posts small blind $0.10
dennisa: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Ac Kd]
timanil: folds
Mr. M. Tal: folds
Grafrolf: folds
Donnie3000: raises $0.25 to $0.50
rds4sdr: folds
MrSticker66: calls $0.40
dennisa: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [9c 8h Ah]
MrSticker66: bets $1.25
soulester joins the table at seat #1
dennisa: calls $1.25
Donnie3000: raises $2.75 to $4
GelsenCAD has returned
MrSticker66: calls $2.75
dennisa: calls $2.75
*** TURN *** [9c 8h Ah] [Ks]
MrSticker66: checks
dennisa: checks
Donnie3000: bets $40.35 and is all-in
MrSticker66: ......
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
Joined
May 20, 2005
Total posts
6,914
Awards
1
That all in tells me your opponent is scared of the King. Pocket pair is likely but at this point only four hands can beat you right now. I would call here and cry if he has a set.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Total posts
3,546
id call,

i think you are seeing A8 and A9 here a lot of the times.


preflop is bad but you know that.
 
pokernut

pokernut

Guest
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Total posts
578
The call call on the flop and then check check on the turn by you and Dennisa probably has him thinking that you're chasing or you're calling him down extremely light and his Ace is good. He want's to scare any flush draw out of the pot.

Call him, majority of the time you're not up against the set here. If you are then chalk it down as a cold deck, rebuy and get it back.
 
J

joeeagles

Guest
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Total posts
1,114
Yeah, I agree with the majority. Having hit 2 pair I don't think you should fold this anymore. If he has a set you're down to 4 outs and you're a 9 to 1 dog (ouch!!!) but honestly I don't see how you get away from this. It is kind of a bizarre play made by him if he has a set, since I certainly would't play it like that because you risk to miss on value, but I still can't totally discount the chance he has it. When you think about it, I don't know with what hand he could be doing this at all, if I take a wild guess maybe its something like Kh9h, although he did minraise PF. What I do know is that its a risk I'd take after the turn brings a K. Had it been any other card I think I'd fold, but as it is its a call...and lots of bad luck if you lose this.

I really like your check on the turn even if the K came, because its a great spot for a check/raise, which should have worked because I strongly doubt that Donnie raised the flop bet on a draw because pot is 3-ways and its hard to get 2 folds, and he should prefer to keep both of you in to build the pot as opposed to isolating 1 of you. So, the check was good because the chances of this checking around were very small. Of course, his all-in bet is very unexpected.

As PN says, all you can do is rebuy and find the way to make it back if this hand set you up this badly to put you in a position to lose this much.

Call.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
I'm thinking this may also be AK. He raised preflop, you and another called an bet at the flop, he raised saying he thinks one or both of you paired the Ace but he has the best kicker.

K comes on the turn, he's now got 2 pair and doesn't want either of you to chase if you're on a draw.


The other possibility still is 88/99. Again, it's following the line of the hand that I had with 3 in; the flop almost-min raiser pushed the turn.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
Bad News: He had a set.
Good News: I sucked out a bigger boat on the river.

However, I don't think I played this very well. Should I really have re-raised my AK preflop in the SB? Should I have laid down to the flop raise? Should I have laid down to the turn push?

I'm really second-guessing myself here. HELP!!!

POKERSTARS GAME #10578912691: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/06/23 - 11:47:34 (ET)
Table 'Sponde' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: Mr. M. Tal ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Grafrolf ($1.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Donnie3000 ($44.85 in chips)
Seat 5: rds4sdr ($13.85 in chips)
Seat 6: MrSticker66 ($29.15 in chips)
Seat 7: dennisa ($20.30 in chips)
Seat 8: timanil ($14.90 in chips)
MrSticker66: posts small blind $0.10
dennisa: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Ac Kd]
timanil: folds
Mr. M. Tal: folds
Grafrolf: folds
Donnie3000: raises $0.25 to $0.50
rds4sdr: folds
MrSticker66: calls $0.40
dennisa: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [9c 8h Ah]
MrSticker66: bets $1.25
soulester joins the table at seat #1
dennisa: calls $1.25
Donnie3000: raises $2.75 to $4
GelsenCAD has returned
MrSticker66: calls $2.75
dennisa: calls $2.75
*** TURN *** [9c 8h Ah] [Ks]
MrSticker66: checks
dennisa: checks
Donnie3000: bets $40.35 and is all-in
MrSticker66: calls $24.65 and is all-in
dennisa: folds
*** RIVER *** [9c 8h Ah Ks] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MrSticker66: shows [Ac Kd] (a full house, Aces full of Kings)
Donnie3000: mucks hand
MrSticker66 collected $59.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $62.80 | Rake $3
Board [9c 8h Ah Ks Ad]
Seat 2: Mr. M. Tal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Grafrolf folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Donnie3000 mucked [8s 8c]
Seat 5: rds4sdr (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: MrSticker66 (small blind) showed [Ac Kd] and won ($59.80) with a full house, Aces full of Kings
Seat 7: dennisa (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 8: timanil folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
You went with your reads and your gut instinct on this one and got paid off.
Sure you should have raised preflop in SB, good call on the flop with TPTK , questionable call on the turn(results oriented) but without being results oriented you had to make the call with 2 pr, and sure you did suck-out at the river, but thats poker my friend.
All in all, good win.
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Total posts
641
Well his all-in on turn really cut down on margin of maneuvering in the hand. I call this, i think youd turn out to be ahead here more often than not. Original raisers tend to be protective of their hands so on flop he could have tons of hands including lower aces, or 2 pairs. By turn and with his all-in, i dont see myself folding it.
 
J

joeeagles

Guest
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Total posts
1,114
Should I really have re-raised my AK preflop in the SB? Should I have laid down to the flop raise? Should I have laid down to the turn push?


1) I think that you should have reraised PF, even if you're OOP.

2) Although it was a significant raise, I don't think you should have laid down your hand on the flop. You can't be sure why he he reraised yet, and TP/TK can't be folded that easliy, although you don't want to go broke on it. But he could be making that move for many reasons, if he had a hand like AQ he could easily think he's ahead with the lack of PF action, its very hard for him to put you on AK, plus his raise could simply be trying to discourage draws to hang around. My strategy would be to attempt to check/call lightly if I didn't improve, and fold to any strong action.

3) The turn push with a set is pretty weird, I think he was excessively concerned to get sucked out by a flush. This type of player maybe doesn't understand that all he has to do is make people draw incorrectly. Dennisa has ~$16 left and you had ~$25, pot was $13.50. There was no need for him to shove if he was worried about the flush. This guy must have been sucked out a lot lately if he was happy to take it down there and not trying to get value on his set. I was probably wrong on my 2nd post though, thinking about it the chances of a set awfully played must be greater than I originally thought. So, to answer your 3rd question, all I can really say is that I wouldn't have folded. Is it the correct play? I don't know. I guess in a really good day this lay down can be done, but it sure isn't easy.
 
Effexor

Effexor

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 13, 2006
Total posts
1,773
Reraise PF, the strength of AK is it's fold equity, while still being a good drawing hand.

The flop bet and call is pretty standard. You very well could be up against another ace, AQ / AJ / AT / A9 / A8 isn't out of the realm of possible holdings.

When the King hits on the turn, this is usually where I say outloud "I wonder if that was a good card or not for me", but at this point I'm raising, and reraising to the felt with top 2.
 
spore

spore

Rock Star
Joined
May 4, 2006
Total posts
491
I see PP's minraised alot at low-stakes tables. When I first read this I was thinking the guy had Aces. I see them minraised a lot.

preflop: yes a re-raise would probably be the best here. if you get called, you're looking at a small PP couple paint cards or even possibly a suited medium suited connector. if you get re-raised, it's hard not to put them on a big PP.. so you get info either way.

flop: the raise here definitely indicates that he's protecting against the flush. this spot is actually very nice for us.. i will sometimes pretend to hit the flush if i'm on a busted straight-draw or something and i know the bettor is afraid of the flush. anyway, we're pretty sure he doesn't want the flush.. so he's either got big pair, two-pair or a set

turn: all-in push right off the bat. with the two checks to him, he definitely thinks you're both on the flush draw. and with the flop call he thinks the only way to push you guys out of the hand is to all-in. well denissa was probably on the flush draw and he got her out. Now, the only hands he's scared of is AA and KK, and with no preflop re-raise those are pretty dang unlikely. So if he gets a call here you're either going to be drawing to a flush WAY against the odds, or he has a almost assured win. but, of course you hit the 4 outer =P

Moral of the story, I would have folded at the turn all-in. Mainly because I had a feeling he was on a PP, and probably hit it on the flop. The only other hand I can see is AK and you'd split and it's not worth the all-in to find out if you're dominated or tied.

Oh and a side note on the turn. I definitely would have led out with a bet there, hitting 2-pair... you definitely aren't slowplaying in that spot are you? We have to be very worried about the set and a re-raise there would tell us for sure that's what's up. If it's a weak ace they're probably getting out of the way.
 
Top