Was this a terrible call?

S

sta123

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Total posts
124
full tilt poker Game #5721556307: Table Hinson - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:00:47 ET - 2008/03/21
Seat 1: stapoker123 ($29.80)
Seat 2: groinem ($24.90)
Seat 3: TheWakko ($49.25)
Seat 5: VollesHouse ($20.10)
Seat 7: hawkmudd ($10)
stapoker123 posts the small blind of $0.25
groinem posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to stapoker123 [Kh Qh]
TheWakko folds
VollesHouse folds
stapoker123 raises to $2
groinem calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [3c 5h 6h]
stapoker123 bets $3
groinem has 15 seconds left to act
groinem calls $3
*** TURN *** [3c 5h 6h] [Js]
stapoker123 bets $3
hawkmudd has been disconnected
hawkmudd has reconnected
groinem raises to $19.90, and is all in
stapoker123 has 15 seconds left to act
stapoker123 has requested TIME
KCBOWMAN sits down
KCBOWMAN adds $20
snl1 sits down
stapoker123 calls $16.90
groinem shows [7s 4s]
stapoker123 shows [Kh Qh]
snl1 adds $24.05
*** RIVER *** [3c 5h 6h Js] [Jh]
groinem shows a straight, Seven high
stapoker123 shows a flush, King high
stapoker123 wins the pot ($47.80) with a flush, King high
Lizart sits down
groinem is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $49.80 | Rake $2
Board: [3c 5h 6h Js Jh]
Seat 1: stapoker123 (small blind) showed [Kh Qh] and won ($47.80) with a flush, King high
Seat 2: groinem (big blind) showed [7s 4s] and lost with a straight, Seven high
Seat 3: TheWakko didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: VollesHouse (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: hawkmudd is sitting out

Even though I won the hand, I'm not sure if i made the correct call here, I put him on a jack so I thought I had more outs than I actually did.
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

Visionary
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
731
Assuming he does just have a jack, with no king or queen for kicker, you are about 30 percent or so to make your hand by the river. So you are getting slightly less than 2 to 1 pot odds when you will need slightly more than 2 to1 pot odds to break even. So in that sense you will have a slight negative expectation even in your dream scenario of him just having a jack, but in reality you will need substantially better pot odds than what he is offering you to compensate for the times he has a set, 2 pair , straight, etc. In your hand example you are a 4 to 1 underdog when all the money goes in getting less than 2 to 1. When you do your math in this spot you should be counting mainly your flush draw outs. For the overcards you have you should only count those as partial outs since it is likely that you can still hit one of those cards and still lose. You should usually only count those as 1/2 out each. So you will have 9 flush outs and 3 overcard outs for a total of 12. I hope this is helpful.
 
S

sta123

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Total posts
124
the reason i put him on ajack and not a low set or straight is because i raised preflop, didn't expect him to call with 4, 7, thanks for advice though im pretty sure this was a bad call anyway
 
zachvac

zachvac

Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
7,832
Bad call. Even if all your outs are clean (you can never assume overcards are full outs) you're still a 2-1 dog here. This means you can call a pot sized bet with odds. Fine call on the flop there, but when he shoves that turn you have to let it go. Actually it's closer than I thought, it's pretty much a break-even call if you really did have all the 15 clean outs, but when you don't it's a losing play. Still got to fold it. You get your money back in the best case scenario and in the worst case scenario you're spewing chips.
 
A

alpersado

Guest
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Total posts
22
it is a bad call...you are a dog at river, you know that but call it...
 
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