99 against an extreme LAG

B

bigjoker66

Visionary
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Total posts
570
Villain is playing every pot. What do we do here?
Raise flop instead of calling his min raise?

poker stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $9.75
BB: $14.50
UTG: $9.75 - 90/43/1.7 over 100 hands
Hero (MP): $12.25 - 21/18/2.1
CO: $11.35
BTN: $11.45

Preflop: Hero is dealt 9
diamondnormal.gif
9
heartnormal.gif
(6 Players)
UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, BB calls $0.30, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.25) 6
spadenormal.gif
5
heartnormal.gif
4
diamondnormal.gif
(3 Players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.00, BB folds, UTG raises to $2.00, Hero calls $1.00

Turn: ($5.25) 4
spadenormal.gif
(2 Players)
UTG bets $3.00 ..
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Total posts
641
Hes been entering every pot, but how has his postflop been.

What kind of hands has he gone to showdown with.
 
B

bigjoker66

Visionary
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Total posts
570
Went to showdown 40%
Won $ at showdown 50%

He was going to showdown a lot and winning with everything from K high to a flush. Usually top or 2nd pair though.

He was putting me to hard decisions at every street most times I tangled with him.
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Total posts
4,193
i like to deal with LAGs by being passive. They are less likely to call down weaker hands than they are to bet them down. The turn is actually a pretty good card for us. If he flopped top 2, we just counterfeited him. I think I call & check call almost any river.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Went to showdown 40%
Won $ at showdown 50%

Hmm, stats seem to suggest that a lot of people have identified his playing style and are playing into it by going to showdown with him thinking he's always bluffing.

I don't think raising a minraise against a LAG will do much. Either play passive like joose says or make a huge raise to put the pressure back on him. With this hand a big reraise is dangerous; I vote call down.
 
J

jeffred1111

Visionary
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Total posts
792
Knowing that you will bet and call his minraise, what hand could he have that he would bet on turn? I'd say that a six is likely, a 5 too for value or he is semi-bluffing a straight draw (or straight up bluffing) hoping you'll fold such a dry flop since you raise preflop. A made straight or trips (or FH) would just check again, fake a busted bluff and call to set an all-in on the river. I call turn and river, but check behind him if it is checked to me on the river.
 
J

joeeagles

Guest
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Total posts
1,114
i like to deal with LAGs by being passive. They are less likely to call down weaker hands than they are to bet them down. The turn is actually a pretty good card for us. If he flopped top 2, we just counterfeited him. I think I call & check call almost any river.


Agree with above^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Raising will make worse hands fold and you'll lose the river bet.

The only time I can think raising would be good here is if he's on draw with a 7, in that case he might check the river and you lose an extra bet. I still think I'd just call though and check the river, cause you might induce a bluff even if he missed a draw.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Total posts
2,389
I'd probably just shove the turn and expect to see some random 6 or 7 if he calls you. (And people call very light at this level.)

Being passive might be OK on a dry board with a lock hand, but this is neither.

You need to shove with made hands to disguise your bluffs. And you're ahead of his range here.
 
T

Threads13

Guest
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Total posts
48
I'd probably just shove the turn and expect to see some random 6 or 7 if he calls you. (And people call very light at this level.)

Being passive might be OK on a dry board with a lock hand, but this is neither.

You need to shove with made hands to disguise your bluffs. And you're ahead of his range here.

I agree with a lot of this but I think shoving here encourages him to play correctly. I am not worried about disguising by bluffs against a player that I am not going to bluff and at a level that is unlikely to have anyone paying much attention anyways.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Total posts
2,389
Why are you not going to bluff him? If you think he's probably a calling station, this is a good reason to shove. If he's not, bluff away.
 
T

Threads13

Guest
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Total posts
48
Why are you not going to bluff him? If you think he's probably a calling station, this is a good reason to shove. If he's not, bluff away.

Villain is playing every pot. [/quote said:
He is loose so I am not going to maximize by bluffing. He is aggressive so I am going to use that against him and let him hang himself.

It sounds like you are saying, if he is not a calling station then push.

That isn't necessarily the best way to play against this villain.
 
B

bigjoker66

Visionary
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Total posts
570
Lots of good discussion here. Thanks for the input.

I am slowly getting better at playing against LAG's.

I am thinking that I am going to take 3-5 buy ins and try to play lag pretty soon. That way I will kind of understand the strategy of how to play it and be able to counteract it better.

What I know about LAG's so fare is that they want to:
- keep constant pressure, inducing mistakes
- keep the pot small, and win a lot of them
- build a large pot with good cards on the turn and river
- see most flops and turns
- take down pots where a c-bet is made on a dry board and probably missed

I'm sure I am still missing some aspects of LAG play, but this is a good start.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Total posts
2,389
He is loose so I am not going to maximize by bluffing. He is aggressive so I am going to use that against him and let him hang himself.

It sounds like you are saying, if he is not a calling station then push.

That isn't necessarily the best way to play against this villain.
No, the other way round - if you think he is a calling station, push. If he can fold a 6 or a weak draw here, there's less value in pushing a made hand, but you will be able to bluff him. I'd disagree that you shouldn't bluff loose players. You should probably actually bluff more, because they usually don't have very much.
 
T

Threads13

Guest
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Total posts
48
No, the other way round - if you think he is a calling station, push. If he can fold a 6 or a weak draw here, there's less value in pushing a made hand, but you will be able to bluff him. I'd disagree that you shouldn't bluff loose players. You should probably actually bluff more, because they usually don't have very much.

The first part you are right on, I just typed it backwards.

I think you have some fuzzy thinking going on. Most loose players tend to call too much - that is why they are called loose. If you have a loose player who tends to fold the flop a lot then he is sort of a loose-tight or weak-loose player. I think bluffing those guys that call a lot preflop and then quickly release their hand is fine but if you are talking about a standard loose player that goes too far with his hands then bluffing is spewy.

This is detracting from the main point. If he is LAG then let him bluff us.

Yes, I could see pushing the turn here as we don't really want to see a river card and we think we have good value against his AI range. The above is a macro statement.
 
Top