V1 ($2000+) is young hoodie wearing player. Looks grinder-ish. Haven't played with him before though. He is the most active at the table but he table is fairly tight and quiet. Can clearly play LAG but also goes on quiet streaks, isn't forcing it too often. He has been caught bluffing a few times. The most memorable time he raised pre and then double barreled a board something like T94, 9, 4. He gives up on the river and starts to fold, the other guy doesn't want to show either. He mucks and the other guy shows 78 and he insists the 8 high was good. Then he switches gears gets tons of action and shows strong hands for an hour.

V2 ($800) is older loose-ish passive who has added on a few times and appears to be getting frustrated. I've played with him before but don't really remember much about him. Didn't seem dangerous.

Hero ($800) is middle aged with nit image. Have been getting great cards but everyone is folding pre. Opening wider in position, still not getting much action. Also couldn't get AK to hold vs KJ (-$200) and lost a few other pots. So we are struggling in that we are winning super small and losing larger pots. May seem weak tight + nitty but we have been making good folds.

OTTH: Hero opens to $20 UTG with KsTs, V1 flats, MP flats, V2 flats.
Flop ($80): Qs 9d 3c
We cbet $35 with our gut shot and over card repping strong Qx over pairs and 99. Call, call. Uh oh. What happened to our nit image. I'm putting V1 on mostly Qx or JT with some floats that plan to bluff later. V2 seems weaker, not sure what his range is but I'm also giving him Qx, 9x, and broadway draws.

Turn ($155): Td
We decide to turn our hand into a bluff here and lead for $140. We can also rep TT and QT along with a KJ that cbet. If we get raised we are obviously folding. No one 3 bet pre and the cbet was less than half pot so Hero figures we can fold out some Qx and draws here. Hero is wrong, V1 calls fairly comfortably (QJ?) after only a short pause. V2 calls as well. Seems like we are toast, drawing to a J or maybe a T.

River ($575): Kh
Still 3 ways with the 4 card straight on the board and the worst position I think we have to give up here. Hero x, V1 x, V2 x. What? Any way we win this hand? Thoughts on our line pre and post flop?

For turn I would like to add this hand into check raise range as it can put villain to fold JTs/KTs, and some KQo/ AQo combos

As played river sizing a bit tricky given your turn bet, I think you could have sets, JJ, AJ in this spot but villain range should have many Jx well. If you bet very small on the river, I don't think KQ would fold but perhaps makes the decision easier and you could still beat some weaker two pairs.

Originally Posted by quant1986

For turn I would like to add this hand into check raise range as it can put villain to fold JTs/KTs, and some KQo/ AQo combos

As played river sizing a bit tricky given your turn bet, I think you could have sets, JJ, AJ in this spot but villain range should have many Jx well. If you bet very small on the river, I don't think KQ would fold but perhaps makes the decision easier and you could still beat some weaker two pairs.

Good point. I kind of like your x/r turn line more than leading again. The more I think about the turn lead the more I don't like it. If either of them have Qx it's most likely KQ, QJ, QT. The QJ and QT are never folding so we are only really putting KQ to the test and charging draws. We do fold out some Jx, but JT isn't going anywhere either.

As for value betting river, it just seems so easy for one of them to have a J. If V1 wasn't in the hand I'd be more comfortable going for it because this player can raise without the J given our line. With our nitty image he will be surprised to see KJ, AJ from us with this line so may make a good read and raise. V2 is not this sophisticated and will play face up only raising when we are toast but also calling too wide thinking we may bluff.

In preflop I think you took advantage of your image to perform a standard opening. However, having this type of villains behind is always a bit awkward (especially when you have the bad luck of receiving good combinations, but who could not have the necessary actions that one wants with them.)
I have some readings, but I suggest that V1 may also have been a bit frustrated, after saying "that the 8 was good."
Probably from that moment, that villain made the decision and also had the luck to receive good combinations, for which, perhaps the table had an image of him, a little overrated at that time.
With respect to V2, his image is apparently much more transparent and perhaps this is an advantage for him, since it could be used in situations of low boards, where he has the greatest probable force from there.
An interesting fact that you tell us, is that none of these villains made 3bet before, which is a point to pay attention, since they probably like to play the call with strong ranges, at least they show up like this, most of the time
In preflop your opening was of normal size and then v1 calls you. He can probably call you from his lower section of his range with Jc-Tc; Qc-8c; Qc-Tc; Ace-9s. Then in its highest section v1 can have in its range: AQ; KQ; etc.
The v2 range is much wider, we can find a call from 9s-8s; Js-3s; Jc-7c; Jc-9c; Kd-3d; etc and in its highest section; Q-K; A-T; A-J; A-Q; etc.
In the flop I think you chose an appropriate C bet size with your backdoor flush + gutshot, which also blocks a middle ladder. A line worth defending against 3bets from out of position, especially if we think they want to remove you with a low pair of this board.
On the turn you are willing to show a lot of strength, I agree that a size of this proportion is necessary, since now you don't block many lines that open on the board and if the villains remain solid, they must pay to see the river.
From the point of view of your image, you are representing a strong line, but you can also represent a float bet, for example with Ad-Qd; Ad-Jd. And on the side of the villains, v2 can induce equity in their favor with 9s-8s; 7d-8d; Kd-3d Maybe you are not willing to leave 9-T or maybe you feel comfortable with J-9.
Regarding v2, your turn call may be an indication that you are protecting doubles such as Q-T. You may also be looking for your equity with Q-J or Ad-8d.
On the river the scheme changes a lot. Now we are behind KQ, all J arrived and there is a possibility that some villain has protected a set on the turn. This last consideration becomes more likely, because we know that it is very rare to talk about a 3bet line in these people.
Obviously your check showed the villains the highest part of your range, otherwise I think they would have bet you hard here. And in that case, you would have a very hard picture to evaluate.

I didn't mean that these Vs had no 3 bet range pre. V1 was the most active pre and post and would have 3 bet bluffs as well as a wide 3 bet value range. He probably wouldn't 3 bet Hero wide since we have been playing nitty. V2 has also 3 bet maybe once but is only 3 betting for value with QQ+ and AK.

I agree 100% that the run out is just gross. All the hands that we targeted got there. The only Qx we can beat is AQ and QT. Any J has us crushed and any set has us crushed. I don't think I could have called any river bet but maybe it depends on reads and sizing.

As mentioned above I think the idea of our line is good but the T on the turn and the K on the river work against us. I really don't like the turn bet as I think back. I prefer a x/c or even a x/r for max pressure. If we x/c or x/r then it's easier to blocker bet / fold river.

Preflop
We ended up 4-ways out of position, which is why, we want to play as tight as possible UTG. At least we were suited, which makes it a bit less bad.

Flop
Dont mind the C-bet, since we are not going to fold just yet. We have a BDFD as well, so definitely some playability here.

Turn
We picked up some showdown value and it seem a bit ambitious to try and get someone to fold top pair. Prefer checking here and then make a decision, if someone bet.

River
Not the worst card in the deck actually. We lose to JX now, but we beat QX and most two pair. Seems to thin to bet for value though, so check and make a decision must be the best line.

You are focusing way too much on the images and what you are repping instead of the actual board.

Preflop fine, suited broadways are always good to open with. Flop cbet in my opinion could be a bit thin into this many opponents, but with the backdoor flush, it's not that bad. Turn is nothing but a check call, turning your hand into a bluff and hoping someone folds their top pair is simply too optimistic. You have a pair plus a redraw component, you're still 3 way. River you played well, 4 straight, easy check. You definitely win this hand from time to time, both villains could have a Qx.