50nlFR; set vs nit in big pot

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Villain has played like <3 hands after a 50 hand sample and I've been ~22/15 or something. Was aggressive when I first sat down but have tightened up.

poker stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $61
Hero (UTG): $91.60
UTG+1: $79.90
UTG+2: $88.80
MP1: $9.25
MP2: $54.75
CO: $49.75
BTN: $50.45
SB: $45.90

Pre-Flop: 4
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4
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dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 raises to $2, 3 folds, BTN calls $2, SB folds, BB calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.50

Flop: ($10.25) 5
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6
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4
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(5 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $2.50, UTG+2 calls $2.50, BTN calls $2.50, BB raises to $20.50, Hero ...
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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How has UTG+2 been playing? Since he was the preflop raiser it's his image that matters most when defining the BBs range.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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The big blinds range is massive after the pre-flop action, hes getting implied odds on all sorts of suited connectors, pairs and even random stuff. Given that, folding a set here is a little weak tight. If he flopped a set or straight so be it. I stack here.

Why check your set here if we are going to fold to any action.......
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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w/o a read on the BB that he'd do this with only a FD, I'd have to fold. UTG+1 flop bet is weak thus giving the other 2 odds to call with most of their range. UTG+2 didn't reraise as the initial raiser so he's weak as a big pair would easily reraise. BB may be taking advantage of this weakness and playing the odds that you hadn't hit anything. You can't call as that gives the other 3 more than 3-1 odds to chase. If you do decide to play this then you need to put BB AI.
 
P

phatjose

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In the heat of the moment I probably stack this here. Being able to look at it though, it looks like set vs set or straight vs set.

BB basically raised the pot and committed himself to the hand. I'd expect him to open shove the turn pretty much no matter what card hits. That being said, the only flush draw I can see him doing this with is maybe the 89c, giving him a gutshot and flush draw.

This looks more like 78o, 23o, 55 or 66. I guess it's possible he could be making a play with something like 77 or 67 here, but I'm not sure I see someone check-raising 4 people with that.
 
t1riel

t1riel

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I actually have a question Chuck. Why did you check that flop? Wouldn't betting it provide sone info on where the other players stand?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I'm going for a flop check-raise because it's the best way to trap dead money in the pot from the button and BB.

Suppose UTG+2 has a big hand like an overpair. If we bet and he raises, we shut everyone else out of the pot that may have called his bet had we checked and he c-bet. We want the flop to go ch-bet-call-call-call and we then raise to trap all that dead money in the pot that we wouldn't have gotten had we lead out.

Information isn't what we're after here - money is. The check-raise from the BB threw me off, but I still think we have to stack here. If we have a few hundred more hands on him and he's still got the same stats (5/3 or something), then we go ahead and automuck our bottom set since he basically won't ever have a hand we beat. I think I just posted this in the heat of the moment.

Anyways I actually called (blaghghekladhlgfjdasfiow ugly I know), got UTG+1 to call, then snapshoved the BB's turn bet. He had 55, I lose.
 
Announced

Announced

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You say you want to trap the dead money, but after all of the action, including the massive raise from the BB, you have to start thinking you are behind. Look at the ranges for the players in the hand. Five players go to the flop, then there are two calls of the initial flop bet. Even before the BB's play, there is reason to believe that your hand is no longer that good. The BB's raise pretty much solidifies a fold on the flop.
 
rwilson

rwilson

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Unless you think this guy is pushing an overpair I'd fold here.. he's representing the straight or set, he could have either, and in that case you're basically dead.

Hard spot though.. these situations really trouble me still and it's usually a hand like this that will lead to a losing night. Seeing as though you only had $2 invested in the middle, I would have been inclined to fold this time and wait for a better opportunity.
 
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