50nl A5 for top and bottom pair BVB

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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EDIT: sorry, wrong section :eek:

Villain is a 32/14/4.75 maniac and I'm a tag again.

After the given action, what's our plan for the hand? Get it all in if possible? Call down? Fold? Call and raise turn?....

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed)

CO ($52.90)
Button ($36.85)
SB ($58.25)
Hero ($65.40)
UTG ($51.60)
MP1 ($16.15)
MP2 ($24)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
heart.gif
, 5
diamond.gif
.
5 folds, SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2) A
diamond.gif
, K
heart.gif
, 5
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $7, Hero ...

fwiw villain has been playing very basic lag play so far, making positional raises, betting when he has nothing, slowplaying monsters, bluffing left right and centre, but his line here has me at a loss for words. Does he really play AA/KK/AK like this? Does he even play AQ/AJ like this? Maybe a draw? Maybe a stone cold bluff!?

I'm confused.
 
pantin007

pantin007

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what gets me is how small he is reraising
now i really dont think he would raise like this if he was bluffing, so im ruling that out of the equation
i think he might be playing something like ace jack maybe even king queen could even be a draw really but i cant put him on AK
i would try to make an aggressive raise to really find out where i was
maybe something like 2/3 pot and if he calls i would have to slow down after that
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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just to add, he INSTA minimum reraised to $7 there.
 
S

switch0723

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INSTA minimum reraised

UH OH :(

I dont think we can fold 2 pair here in a blind v blind vs a villain who likes to bluff and slowplay monsters as you said. I re raise this to about 25 and am willing to push all in and expect to stack off vs a set of 5's. I imagine he just thinks his ace is good enough here
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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My gut feeling is he'd have to have something to play it this badly - I'd read it for an ace with a decent kicker that thinks it's ahead. Playing like a freeroll donk with nothing here would just be throwing money away.

As for what we do about it... I'm still developing my cash game, but is a shove here so awful? We've very likely got the best hand right now, but there's a lot of scare cards that can fall on the next two streets which villain could use to push us off.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Well tbh I played the hand oddly in the end and am still confused with what's the best line, but shoving definitely has it's ups (as well as it's downs).

pros: we protect vs the draws and possibly get a stack from a worse ace

cons: we're frequently crushed when we're called; we also shut down any bluffs

fwiw I called him down instead, without much reasoning and it got really sticky. Here are the turn and river, but I still hate how I played this:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed)

CO ($52.90)
Button ($36.85)
SB ($58.25)
Hero ($65.40)
UTG ($51.60)
MP1 ($16.15)
MP2 ($24)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
heart.gif
, 5
diamond.gif
.
5 folds, SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2) A
diamond.gif
, K
heart.gif
, 5
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $7, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($16) Q
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $7.5, Hero calls $7.50.

River: ($31) 6
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $42.75 (All-In), Hero ...
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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I think I fold to the turn bet, if not the river. There's just way too much stuff that has you beat to pay 43$ to see his cards. I'll grant you that his play is about as fishy as possible. However, the only thing you beat here is AJ, KQ type hands, and various broken draws. What you need to remember is that maniacs can also catch cards, and that murphy's law says they only catch cards when you catch second best ones :p.

Also, this fits his line on slow-playing monsters (to a degree). He raised small pre-flop, and bet small on the flop. This to me seems like he really really wants you to call. The raise afterwards, imo, is probably just the usual donkey "Oooh, I have a fish on the hook! Raise!" deal.

As played, I fold the riv. And I would've prefered re-popping him on the flop after he pumped it up to 7$. Hands with maniacs don't go to showdown without being all in, so you really shouldn't be seeking a cheap showdown, because it probably doesn't exist. To maniacs, being called down usually just means "Hmmm, I need to bet more on the next street to get him off his hand" rather than "Oh noes, I'm beaten". You should be raising for info, to figure out if your top & bottom are beaten or not.

So, did he turn over A6 after you called him? :D
 
Last edited:
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Ouch. That Q on the turn is really ugly - is he maniac enough to keep firing there with a naked ace, when you're clearly indicating you've got a hand? It's made him finally abandon his push-button betting routine at any rate, and I might be folding to the turn bet.

Once the turn's been called, the river card is about as good as we can hope for though. As played, it's a grudging call on the river?
 
S

switch0723

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i think we have to call here after calling the river. Its such a massive overbet it obviously suspicious. He has a huge range, of which we beat most of so i think we need to call. Surely anything that beats us by a lot e.g. a set, puts in more of a vlue bet here. I think at best he has a,q with a,6 being hte other possible hand that beats you. I call the river bet and hope for the best
 
B

baconn

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Well he has an Ace for sure. Does he have a queen or not. I think we should have reraise on teh turn and fold to any raise. I say fold, he has you beat.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Still didn't like how I played this one regardless how it turned out.

Basically this was a confusion call; nothing really fit his line considering how he'd been playing. tbh I was a little embarassed to post a hand that was played this sloppily and thoughtlessly, but meh.

I called, he showed Q8o, ship...?
 
J

jeffred1111

Visionary
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Apr 16, 2007
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You said it, he is aggro as all hell and is playing a basic (fishy) lag game. Always remember that you are playing blind vs blind against a bad lag: your hand requirements for SD should be lower.

Preflop is fine.

Flop play is not good, but not atrocious if we calldown or fold the turn since we invite him to continue bluffing. Raising is better since it doesn't give the opportunity for vaillain to play flawlessly against us on the turn (by betting and folding to a raise): against such an aggro/bad opponent, be careful about reads that are bet size dependent.

Turn is fine, unless you plan on getting it AI here or on the river. I can find a fold here sometimes, but I probably end up calling to invite third barrell from this bad lag.

River is a somewhat easy call: nothing makes sense, a made hand would've been slowplayed as you said, we should thus assume we are good @ least more than 37% of the time (getting 1.7:1). His range has a lot of air from the beginning and you're inviting bluffs by not raising the flop.
 
pantin007

pantin007

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hmmm Q8o
bluff much?
but i think u had to call,seeing that he was prone to making big bluffs
 
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