$50 NLHE Full Ring: Unknown villian Donks pot when I hit TPTK

F

fx20736

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I actually think thats true.

I think after 50NL people try and exploit FE a lot more than they do below 50NL.

Which I suppose ties in with me saying that the tables are full of nits and calling stations. No point in trying to exploit FE when people dont like to pust the fold button.

So you're saying I have more of the same to look forward to for the next three 3 limits? Might as well polish my nit skills to a birlliant shine!
 
Stu_Ungar

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folding the turn seems ridiculous to me but most of my reasoning has pretty much been stated by belgo

I dunno..

I dont think he is bluffing.

What I cant decide is if he the King with KQ or KJ would he now be playing for stacks with what he believes is the best hand?

Would he bet less with these hands or even just C/C them down?
 
Stu_Ungar

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So you're saying I have more of the same to look forward to for the next three 3 limits? Might as well polish my nit skills to a birlliant shine!

Basically yes!

The nits are still nits.

The Calling stations are still calling stations.

The only saving grace is that the tags all bet way too much and usually turn into calling stations if they get raised back!
 
WVHillbilly

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What I don't understand is why you said villain was an unknown but keep referring to 1 million hands???
 
tusabes

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Maybe WVH already did this in his equity estimation but I would include K4s or K5s+ in most limp/callers range.

That turn bet makes me uncomfy...but I'm a fish and probably shove and hope I have outs :p
 
vanquish

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I dunno..

I dont think he is bluffing.

What I cant decide is if he the King with KQ or KJ would he now be playing for stacks with what he believes is the best hand?

Would he bet less with these hands or even just C/C them down?

honestly he was probably either like


"OMG K IS A BIG SCARY CARD LOL INSTAPOT"


or like


"K I HAVE A DIAMOND DRAW, MUST INSTABET"


or like


"K I HAVE A T AND A BIG OLE SCARY KING CAME OFF OTT, GOTTA PROD FOR INFORMATION"


or like



"K I HAVE A T:diamond: and an X:diamond: AND HOLY SNAP THE TURN IS A DIAMOND TOO, GOTTA POT IT BEFORE MY WEENER EXPLODES"
 
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Stu_Ungar

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What I don't understand is why you said villain was an unknown but keep referring to 1 million hands???

well he was unkonwn at the time.

So as he limp called I would assume him to be 20-40 VPIP with a pfr of under 10.

I ended up with about 30 hands on him and this looked to be about right.

So then I try and get a feel of what that type of villian does by filtering said 1 million hands for players who fit that description and see what they do in limp call preflop, XC flop and then bet turn situations. If I see a ton of bluffs then I assume they bluff a lot, If I see a ton of 2pair+ hands I assume they do this for value etc.
 
Stu_Ungar

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honestly he was probably either like


"OMG K IS A BIG SCARY CARD LOL INSTAPOT"


or like


"K I HAVE A DIAMOND DRAW, MUST INSTABET"


or like


"K I HAVE A T AND A BIG OLE SCARY KING CAME OFF OTT, GOTTA PROD FOR INFORMATION"


or like



"K I HAVE A T<font color='red'>♦</font> and an X<font color='red'>♦</font> AND HOLY SNAP THE TURN IS A DIAMOND TOO, GOTTA POT IT BEFORE MY WEENER EXPLODES"

I dunno, I just dont tend to view limp callers preflop as being this agro postflop.

Maybe they are.
 
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fx20736

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Basically yes!

The nits are still nits.

The Calling stations are still calling stations.

The only saving grace is that the tags all bet way too much and usually turn into calling stations if they get raised back!


So at what level does Fold Equity become a real part of the game? Until then I guess I should do what I've done which is play Suited Broadway Aces the same as offsuit. If you cannot get anyone to fold then how can you turn that 38% equity on the flop into a +EV situation?
 
vanquish

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I dunno, I just dont tend to view limp callers preflop as being this agro postflop.

Maybe they are.

i mean when a guy c/c's the flop and instapots a turn scarecard, you kinda have to go with your own personal read. i find its often a bluff, thus i mostly call. if you encounter a ton of monster hands when people do it in your games, then you can prolly mostly fold.


its just such a FOS line that i call because turned TPTK is pretty good and i'm a teenage bride with a baby inside gettin high on information
 
brank

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I know what your new SN should be FX.... "thedrailer"
 
Stu_Ungar

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So at what level does Fold Equity become a real part of the game? Until then I guess I should do what I've done which is play Suited Broadway Aces the same as offsuit. If you cannot get anyone to fold then how can you turn that 38% equity on the flop into a +EV situation?

When people fold or shove rather than calling to find out what you do next.
 
Stu_Ungar

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i mean when a guy c/c's the flop and instapots a turn scarecard, you kinda have to go with your own personal read. i find its often a bluff, thus i mostly call. if you encounter a ton of monster hands when people do it in your games, then you can prolly mostly fold.


its just such a FOS line that i call because turned TPTK is pretty good and i'm a teenage bride with a baby inside gettin high on information

The thing is I WOULD bet it! Id bet it because its a scare card and I get a ton of fold and if I had ATC I would need that fold. I just dont see limp callers playing this way.
 
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This is like a puke-fold I think. We probably need more info on villain than to randomly give him credit for potting a bluff on a turn card that he should expect us to barrel a lot.
 
vanquish

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:( @ the idea that people now fold as a standard when confronted with a strange situation, rather than call




goddamn nits
 
Stu_Ungar

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:( @ the idea that people now fold as a standard when confronted with a strange situation, rather than call




goddamn nits

I'm not a NIT I'm a LAG in disguise.


Granted, its a very good disguise.
 
vanquish

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i disguised myself as an elephant once just to get in bed w/ chuckts
 
BelgoSuisse

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Just for kicks. This was this morning. Villain is unknown and pots turn with... ?

Hint: this is rush poker, so everybody is a nit.

full tilt poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1201090
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: $30.30
MP2: $112.60
CO: $77.00
BTN: $130.60
Hero (SB): $100.25
BB: $98.00
UTG: $231.75
UTG+1: $75.70
UTG+2: $161.20

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with A :diamond: K :spade:
6 folds, BTN calls $1, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, BTN calls $4

Flop: ($11.00) 7 :club: A :spade: 7 :heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN calls $6

Turn: ($23.00) K :heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $23, Hero calls $23

River: ($69.00) Q :club: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $96.60 all in, Hero calls $66.25 all in

Final Pot: $201.50
BTN shows 9 :club: T :spade: (a pair of Sevens)
Hero shows A :diamond: K :spade: (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Hero wins $198.50
(Rake: $3.00)

So Stu, do you fold turn or river when you realize villain can only have 7x here?
 
vanquish

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belgo swooping in with the higher stakes/more impressive call to shut down the thread, i like it
 
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fx20736

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Just for kicks. This was this morning. Villain is unknown and pots turn with... ?

Hint: this is rush poker, so everybody is a nit.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1201090
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: $30.30
MP2: $112.60
CO: $77.00
BTN: $130.60
Hero (SB): $100.25
BB: $98.00
UTG: $231.75
UTG+1: $75.70
UTG+2: $161.20

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with A K
6 folds, BTN calls $1, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, BTN calls $4

Flop: ($11.00) 7 A 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN calls $6

Turn: ($23.00) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $23, Hero calls $23

River: ($69.00) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $96.60 all in, Hero calls $66.25 all in

Final Pot: $201.50
BTN shows 9 T (a pair of Sevens)
Hero shows A K (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Hero wins $198.50
(Rake: $3.00)

So Stu, do you fold turn or river when you realize villain can only have 7x here?

That's one example. Different than Stu's because your board is paired reducing the possible combos against you. Also the turn gave you top 2 but Stu only had Top Pair. Run the same hole cards and board against 100 opponents. How many villains get stacks in on the the river w/ 9cTs? I'm not saying you misplayed but how you would you feel when villain has a 7?
 
BelgoSuisse

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That's one example. Different than Stu's because your board is paired reducing the possible combos against you. Also the turn gave you top 2 but Stu only had Top Pair. Run the same hole cards and board against 100 opponents. How many villains get stacks in on the the river w/ 9cTs? I'm not saying you misplayed but how you would you feel when villain has a 7?

I would feel fine. Most of villain's range is air here, so check/calling is the best line, imo.

I'm not saying that Stu has the best hand in the OP. I'm saying that considering that air is 0% of villain's range is pretty naive.
 
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fx20736

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So I'm home now and realize I do not know how to stove using a range of specific suited card combinations. I know I can do it for one specific combo or a suited combo like 87s but to enter QdJd.QdTd, Qd9d, etc. eluded me.

I'm a retarded or is there a way to do this?

fx the derailer
 
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ComplexPlaya

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I probably call turn and river because I love to hero call 3rd pair and such. Best feeling in the world!

You want that too Stu? You want maniacs? Come back to entraction :p
 
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