$50 NLHE 6-max: QJs call 3-bet in position?

[Cyclone9]

Not really sure what to think of this hand. Probably fold preflop. Not sure about the river though. What do you guys think?

BTN: $82.64
SB: $66.75
BB: $90.83
UTG: $152.10
MP: $50.00
Hero (CO): $44.70

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has J♦ Q♦

fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.43, fold, SB raises to $6.54, fold, Hero calls $5.11

Flop: ($13.58, 2 players) T♣ 5♥ T♦
SB checks, Hero bets $4.00, SB calls $4.00

Turn: ($21.58, 2 players) K♦
SB checks, Hero bets $12.00, SB raises to $56.21 and is all-in, Hero calls $22.16 and is all-in

River: ($89.90, 2 players) J♠

SB shows A♥ Q♥ (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 70%, Flop 81%, Turn 68%)
Hero shows J♦ Q♦ (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 30%, Flop 19%, Turn 32%)
SB wins $86.90

 

[gustav197poker]

In preflop you have a very short margin of action with the IP call. Possibly you can 3-bet being deep only if you expect a high fold equity from this villain. In this case the preflop fold is better in NL50. On the flop you have a royal flush backdoor, the villain bets small, but anyway his range is quite strong, now we don't block the highest pockets that could surely bet this size, since they can extract much more value in the next fairways given the texture of this board.
On the turn we are one street from completing the royal flush + OESD, however I do not completely agree with the hero's bet, because now some of yours outs are neutralized with the texture of the board. Also, it is less likely to block average gutshots in this sequence, since the villain is playing a fairly close range, so I don't see a considerable gain from this place. Let's note that although his bet has been polarized since preflop, his small barrel balanced his range. So we do not expect a weak game from this part and up to the river.
Considering the whole hand when the villain makes the push we are way behind, because the villain controls our entire range. It is possibly a tempting texture but I think sometimes you have to make cold decisions. And in this case the most profitable option is a fold on the turn.
Greetings

 

[Aballinamion]

Bluffing without range advantage

Not really sure what to think of this hand. Probably fold preflop. Not sure about the river though. What do you guys think?

BTN: $82.64
SB: $66.75
BB: $90.83
UTG: $152.10
MP: $50.00
Hero (CO): $44.70

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has J♦ Q♦

fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.43, fold, SB raises to $6.54, fold, Hero calls $5.11

Flop: ($13.58, 2 players) T♣ 5♥ T♦
SB checks, Hero bets $4.00, SB calls $4.00

Turn: ($21.58, 2 players) K♦
SB checks, Hero bets $12.00, SB raises to $56.21 and is all-in, Hero calls $22.16 and is all-in

River: ($89.90, 2 players) J♠

SB shows A♥ Q♥ (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 70%, Flop 81%, Turn 68%)
Hero shows J♦ Q♦ (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 30%, Flop 19%, Turn 32%)
SB wins $86.90

Hello Cyclone9, thank you very much for sharing your hand.

The Preflop

Observe, in the first place, the sizing used for the SB for the 3-bet: 4.57x the value of your raise. This is polarization, usually meaning SB has the strongest part of its range:

TT+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QJs, AJo+ (7.99%)

In the best case scenario, because SB's range can be even shorter, given this sizing utilized for Villain/SB. We are are not considering SB to be simply stealing preflop, given the size utilized, so we assign SB a strong 3-bet range.
Calling here is default, we have position and QJs will play okay against this horrible strong 3-bet range: you have with QJs, 34% equity vs SB's polarized range for calling this 3-bet, so the call here is fine, given the small possibility of SB's to be "stealing".

the postflop

The Flop

SB checks out of position and we bet with a very poor equity versus a very strong range: no hands SB's polarized range 3-bet preflop are ever folding here: TT, JJ, QQ, KK and AA are check-calling/raising, the broadways and possible bluffs are also calling because SB still has range advantage and when you go for 1/3 pot, it becomes hard even for airs to be leaving.
Now, we have only 21% equity with ours BDF, BDSF, BDRF and BDS, so I would rather take a free turn then try to bluff my opponent out of position with range advantage.
The pot is already too big, and I would take advantage on SB's check to see a free turn, not make the pot grow when I have poor equity and then evaluate if I want to check-call or check-raise or even check-fold turn.
Before betting here, remember that you do not have the strongest hands here such AA, KK, QQ and AK: these hands would be 4-betting in a very high frequency here.

The Turn

Now our equity seems pretty strong, but SB continue having AA, KK, QQ, etc when it does call on the flop, those hands have no reason at all to be check-raising on such a dry flop configuration.
You bet 1/2 pot and SB shoves all-in and this is a very easy fold, considering this is a NLHE Cash Game, not PLO nor NLHE MTT: we have 33% equity versus the SB's 3-betting range, so you are now investing $ 22 to win a pot of nearly $ 100.
It seems an automatically profitable spot, considering you have BDF, BDSF, BDRF and BDS. However...
Summarizing, preflop your equity was 34%, flop was 22% and turn was 33% versus SB's 3-betting range, not versus SB's specific hole cards. Once SB called the flop, I would not bluff this turn and evaluate to see SB's reaction. If I can get a free cheap river, good, if not I think I am folding.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[gustav197poker]

Lol the villain check on the flop. (quarantine effect o drink? Well now I don't understand the little hero bet. What hands can call that size? I think most of rank V will call you. The board is very dry and this check really hides from higher overpairs to larger scale backdoors than ours.
The hero rank is very undetermined, it calls for a significant increase in preflop and now small bet. Against aggressive villains this can spell a point of imbalance, because they could push you from the flop. And honestly we are not in good shape when we bet here. Donk's strategy is used for higher bets when we have a wider bluff structure, but this is not the case because sb dominates most of our semi bluff range. Except for one out, the villain could have multiple AXs in his range, and that implies inverse probabilities for us, since
our bet involves us too much in a boat where we are really below.

 

[Cyclone9]

Hello Cyclone9, thank you very much for sharing your hand.

The Preflop

Observe, in the first place, the sizing used for the SB for the 3-bet: 4.57x the value of your raise. This is polarization, usually meaning SB has the strongest part of its range:

TT+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QJs, AJo+ (7.99%)

In the best case scenario, because SB's range can be even shorter, given this sizing utilized for Villain/SB. We are are not considering SB to be simply stealing preflop, given the size utilized, so we assign SB a strong 3-bet range.
Calling here is default, we have position and QJs will play okay against this horrible strong 3-bet range: you have with QJs, 34% equity vs SB's polarized range for calling this 3-bet, so the call here is fine, given the small possibility of SB's to be "stealing".

the postflop

The Flop

SB checks out of position and we bet with a very poor equity versus a very strong range: no hands SB's polarized range 3-bet preflop are ever folding here: TT, JJ, QQ, KK and AA are check-calling/raising, the broadways and possible bluffs are also calling because SB still has range advantage and when you go for 1/3 pot, it becomes hard even for airs to be leaving.
Now, we have only 21% equity with ours BDF, BDSF, BDRF and BDS, so I would rather take a free turn then try to bluff my opponent out of position with range advantage.
The pot is already too big, and I would take advantage on SB's check to see a free turn, not make the pot grow when I have poor equity and then evaluate if I want to check-call or check-raise or even check-fold turn.
Before betting here, remember that you do not have the strongest hands here such AA, KK, QQ and AK: these hands would be 4-betting in a very high frequency here.

The Turn

Now our equity seems pretty strong, but SB continue having AA, KK, QQ, etc when it does call on the flop, those hands have no reason at all to be check-raising on such a dry flop configuration.
You bet 1/2 pot and SB shoves all-in and this is a very easy fold, considering this is a NLHE Cash Game, not PLO nor NLHE MTT: we have 33% equity versus the SB's 3-betting range, so you are now investing $ 22 to win a pot of nearly $ 100.
It seems an automatically profitable spot, considering you have BDF, BDSF, BDRF and BDS. However...
Summarizing, preflop your equity was 34%, flop was 22% and turn was 33% versus SB's 3-betting range, not versus SB's specific hole cards. Once SB called the flop, I would not bluff this turn and evaluate to see SB's reaction. If I can get a free cheap river, good, if not I think I am folding.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Thanks again for your hand analysis. This is definitely helping. On the flop do you think using a larger bet size is worth a shot to push off any AJ, AQ, AK, KJ, KQ and A2s-A4s?

 

[Cyclone9]

In preflop you have a very short margin of action with the IP call. Possibly you can 3-bet being deep only if you expect a high fold equity from this villain. In this case the preflop fold is better in NL50. On the flop you have a royal flush backdoor, the villain bets small, but anyway his range is quite strong, now we don't block the highest pockets that could surely bet this size, since they can extract much more value in the next fairways given the texture of this board.
On the turn we are one street from completing the royal flush + OESD, however I do not completely agree with the hero's bet, because now some of yours outs are neutralized with the texture of the board. Also, it is less likely to block average gutshots in this sequence, since the villain is playing a fairly close range, so I don't see a considerable gain from this place. Let's note that although his bet has been polarized since preflop, his small barrel balanced his range. So we do not expect a weak game from this part and up to the river.
Considering the whole hand when the villain makes the push we are way behind, because the villain controls our entire range. It is possibly a tempting texture but I think sometimes you have to make cold decisions. And in this case the most profitable option is a fold on the turn.
Greetings

Hi, thanks for looking at my hand. However, the villain check/calls the flops, not bets small. Then he check raises the turn all-in. I like a check on the turn much better in retrospect now...lol.
EDIT: you posted correction before me . The flop bet was bad, but I was targeting his Broadways that missed. It needed to be bigger to accomplish that, and still might not be recommended.

 

[tatalarata]

Just my opinion obv.


I dont like the raise pre, unless you think villain will fold most of the time. If you want to raise this pre in this kind of spot, you should go higher.

If I think villain is a loosetard, theres no need to raise with this type of hand.

Bet on the flop was bad, it just bloating the pot for no reason, go big or check.

Hand went out of control fast though, probably folding pre if I havent seen villain 3bet before.

I do like your call on the turn, even if its not really a profit call, but you just cant fold a rf draw.

 

[Aballinamion]

Thanks again for your hand analysis. This is definitely helping. On the flop do you think using a larger bet size is worth a shot to push off any AJ, AQ, AK, KJ, KQ and A2s-A4s?

I think it is okay to make a bigger c-bet flop if you have more statistics and notes about the player. If you know the players fold too much to c-bet flop in 3-bet pots it is okay to be trying to make Villain to fold AJ, AQ, AK, etc, although that at 50 NLHE, sometimes even the regulars get very sticky to broadways, so we must analyse this spot carefully before trying to bluff, even in position, when we don't have range advantage.
Personally, I don't appreciate bluffing in spots where I have no values and vice-versa.
We called 3-bet preflop, which generally means we do not have the strongest combos, such as AA, KK, QQ and AK, so SB has range advantage upon us.
If we do call 3-bet with an underpair, 22-99, I guess it is not a good ideia to try to make fold JJ+ or even the stronger broadways will have good equity for calling your bets. Our broadways and aces are always worse than SB's broadways and aces, when we hit anything good with QJ, such as trips for example, we are dominated for KQ and AQ, etc.
I think that my overall line, from the BTN, with my calling range would be exactly checking flop, so my equity will get better on the turn or not at all and I have an easy fold without spending/investing too much.
Then it would be impossible for the SB not to be betting its draws and strong pocket pairs, thus we could apply pressure into hands such AA, KK, QQ, JJ to fold because we can represent a made full-house or two pair. TT we don't need to fear because there is only one possible combo on SB's range and Tx SB will not present very much on a 3-bet range oop, even IP (AT, KT, JT for example).
However, check-raising turn with a semi-bluff versus a very passive player or versus an aggro idiot I think it is not good ideia, because those types are going to put all in, even with AQs, missing.
But if we do consider equity, plus fold equity, maybe we can find profitable to do it.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
It was a very large 3-bet, so I lean towards just letting this one go, unless he is a complete 3-bet maniac.

Flop
Bluffing seem like the right idea, but I think, you need to go a bit bigger to make him fold his A high, which is really the goal here.

Turn
Might check back on this card, since he could well have connected with it. When he check-jam, its pretty gross. I plugged the scenario into Flopzilla and gave him, what I think is a reasonable range of KK-AA, TT, AK, ATs-AQs, KTs, QJs and the result was, you had 28% equity. You needed around 25% equity, so if my range assumption is true, you made a slightly profitable call.

 

[gustav197poker]

Preflop
It was a very large 3-bet, so I lean towards just letting this one go, unless he is a complete 3-bet maniac.

Flop
Bluffing seem like the right idea, but I think, you need to go a bit bigger to make him fold his A high, which is really the goal here.

Turn
Might check back on this card, since he could well have connected with it. When he check-jam, its pretty gross. I plugged the scenario into Flopzilla and gave him, what I think is a reasonable range of KK-AA, TT, AK, ATs-AQs, KTs, QJs and the result was, you had 28% equity. You needed around 25% equity, so if my range assumption is true, you made a slightly profitable call.

The v also can have A-5s; 5-5; K-Qs; Q-Q; J-J since the v-range is preflop polarized so in this dry texture they could be checking to keep some hero bluffs.