Villian in MP , not much hand history seems average. Hero on button with JJ.

Stack sizes : hero around 100bb , villian around 80bb.

Blinds in, MP calls blinds, all others folds around to hero on button with JJ.

Hero raises 4x bb, blinds fold , MP calls.

Flop comes 7cQsQh rainbow.

Villian checks , hero c-bets around 3/4 pot, villian calls.

Turn Jh. Villian checks, hero now has Jacks full of Queens.

Hero bets around 3/4 pot, villian calls.

River 7s , villian checks , hero bets half pot, villain shoves...

Hero ?

Originally Posted by quick

Villian in MP , not much hand history seems average. Hero on button with JJ.

Stack sizes : hero around 100bb , villian around 80bb.

Blinds in, MP calls blinds, all others folds around to hero on button with JJ.

Hero raises 4x bb, blinds fold , MP calls.

Flop comes 7cQsQh rainbow.

Villian checks , hero c-bets around 3/4 pot, villian calls.

Turn Jh. Villian checks, hero now has Jacks full of Queens.

Hero bets around 3/4 pot, villian calls.

River 7s , villian checks , hero bets half pot, villain shoves...

Hero ?

It's an ugly spot but since you probably will have to pay very litle to see its a call OTR. If anything I would blockbet river small here, but as played you have a call. His range is very wide being a limp-call. He also has a broke stack, that would be the second indicator for me that he is a fish. Fish do fish things + he has a wide range so I think it's a call.

The problem in this hand is the villain's call on the pre-flop, flop and turn because in his range there can easily be an AQ or KQ, QJs maybe I in that case without information from the villain just because of how the hand was played I fold I don't see a 7 in his range to call the raise pre-flop

Originally Posted by greatgame230

The problem in this hand is the villain's call on the pre-flop, flop and turn because in his range there can easily be an AQ or KQ, QJs maybe I in that case without information from the villain just because of how the hand was played I fold I don't see a 7 in his range to call the raise pre-flop

I would even assign him a wider range. He could easily have more Qx and 7x, like SC and suited 1-2 gappers.
The thing is, as his Qx and 7x increase in absolute terms, they decrease proportionally given that his range is so wide.

Originally Posted by LevySystem

It's an ugly spot but since you probably will have to pay very litle to see its a call OTR. If anything I would blockbet river small here, but as played you have a call. His range is very wide being a limp-call. He also has a broke stack, that would be the second indicator for me that he is a fish. Fish do fish things + he has a wide range so I think it's a call.

Originally Posted by greatgame230

The problem in this hand is the villain's call on the pre-flop, flop and turn because in his range there can easily be an AQ or KQ, QJs maybe I in that case without information from the villain just because of how the hand was played I fold I don't see a 7 in his range to call the raise pre-flop

Originally Posted by LevySystem

I would even assign him a wider range. He could easily have more Qx and 7x, like SC and suited 1-2 gappers.
The thing is, as his Qx and 7x increase in absolute terms, they decrease proportionally given that his range is so wide.

Thanks for the insight all. And correct:

SPOILER:

We called the river and Villian did have a Q got Queens full of 7s. (I believe was Q6o) and makes sense given his range is, as others said, super wide here.

Perhaps this is results oriented thinking but maybe I should have shoved the turn.

Originally Posted by quick

Thanks for the insight all. And correct:

SPOILER:

We called the river and Villian did have a Q got Queens full of 7s. (I believe was Q6o) and makes sense given his range is, as others said, super wide here.

Perhaps this is results oriented thinking but maybe I should have shoved the turn.

His Qx do increase by a lot but as stated the range loosens up drastically if he calls Q6o here. So we could then likely assume that he will be calling K6o+ And A6o+ not to mention all broadways, most Axs and Kxs Qxs... U get the point. So in relation to his actual range he has few Qx. And given that he is a fish he could easily misplay 7x or Ax in that spot. So I think you made the right decision. Depending on reads you can than blockbet-fold river, but from what we know at the given point its most likely a call anyway

There are two issues I have with how the hand was played. I would not bet the flop as large as you did since you are going against a limper who called your raise so they are less likely to be very strong and will just fold out a lot against you that you would want to stay in. Of course they could have Qx so you are just putting money in that seems to be called by better and folded to by worse unless they have some pocket pair that is small and not a 7 (which is very possible that they have pocket 5s or something like that). I like betting here but I would rather bet something around half pot to potentially keep some crap in his range.

The last gripe I have is betting on the river there. I am not sure how many hands will call us 3 streets when they do not have a Q or a 7 in their hand (yes we beat a 7 but not sure how likely that is). I think this is a bet where you arent going to get called by worse and usually wont get called at all either but only get raised when they bluff or when they have it. That puts you in a tough spot to make that call. Some may say it is foregoing value to check there but I dont see a lot of 3 street calls with worse. I would be happy with my two streets there since the board double paired there (especially since on the turn you correctly bet large since they called the flop and got big value).

not betting that big on the flop. the flop is really dry
river is prolly a fold the way the hand was played

I think 300HPGOD summed this up well already but I just wanted to add that I don't think Qx ever takes this line so as gross as it is, as played, I think it's worse to fold than to call as the jam is only like a 1/6 pot bet and we just cant afford to ever be wrong. Since our hand doesn't look like Qx at all, I could see 7x or some other hand thinking they are jamming for value.

Had we not bombed flop then it's possible we can go three streets with small sizings but after getting called two streets and Qx turning into to top boat it's probably better to x/c to try and get value from any other weaker hands that may take a stab while simultaneously limiting losses when V shows up with Qx.

Preflop
Standard isolation raise. Could go a bit larger, but 4BB is fine.

Flop
As others have said this bet is to large. You want him to call with A high or at least put him to a tough decision. Remember that he has mostly missed this board, and when he has hit, you are mostly beat. He has more QX than 7X even coming from a limp-call.

Turn
Great card and great bet for value. Now you of course hope, he has QX, so you can get 3 solid streets of value, or maybe even get him to check-raise and stack him.

River
The flop and turn bets were fairly automatic except maybe for the sizing, but now you really need to pause for a minute and think about his range. On the flop people typically call with any pair and any draw, and maybe some A high, because he dont believe you. However when you fire again on the turn and for a big sizing, most people fold third pair or worse. Some also fold second pair on a paired board, because they could be drawing completely dead.

So after calling you twice his range is basically QX, JX which you heavily block, and a few busted draws. Which mean you need to check back and hope to see a busted draw. You can not bet this river for value, and I honestly think, its a pretty big mistake. And since you should not even have bet, you obviously need to fold when raised. Its not surpricing in any way to see a Q here. It would be surpricing to see anything else. So while not technically a counterfeit, its almost like, your hand got counterfeited on the river.

Originally Posted by quick

Villian in MP , not much hand history seems average. Hero on button with JJ.

Stack sizes : hero around 100bb , villian around 80bb.

Blinds in, MP calls blinds, all others folds around to hero on button with JJ.

Hero raises 4x bb, blinds fold , MP calls.

Flop comes 7cQsQh rainbow.

Villian checks , hero c-bets around 3/4 pot, villian calls.

Turn Jh. Villian checks, hero now has Jacks full of Queens.

Hero bets around 3/4 pot, villian calls.

River 7s , villian checks , hero bets half pot, villain shoves...

Hero ?

Hello,


I'd call because I would assume trip queens would check raise the turn to charge live draws. He might have slow played aces or kings or a worse boat. Call it off and feel good about it.

Originally Posted by Brett R

Hello,


I'd call because I would assume trip queens would check raise the turn to charge live draws. He might have slow played aces or kings or a worse boat. Call it off and feel good about it.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Preflop
Standard isolation raise. Could go a bit larger, but 4BB is fine.

Flop
As others have said this bet is to large. You want him to call with A high or at least put him to a tough decision. Remember that he has mostly missed this board, and when he has hit, you are mostly beat. He has more QX than 7X even coming from a limp-call.

Turn
Great card and great bet for value. Now you of course hope, he has QX, so you can get 3 solid streets of value, or maybe even get him to check-raise and stack him.

River
The flop and turn bets were fairly automatic except maybe for the sizing, but now you really need to pause for a minute and think about his range. On the flop people typically call with any pair and any draw, and maybe some A high, because he dont believe you. However when you fire again on the turn and for a big sizing, most people fold third pair or worse. Some also fold second pair on a paired board, because they could be drawing completely dead.

So after calling you twice his range is basically QX, JX which you heavily block, and a few busted draws. Which mean you need to check back and hope to see a busted draw. You can not bet this river for value, and I honestly think, its a pretty big mistake. And since you should not even have bet, you obviously need to fold when raised. Its not surpricing in any way to see a Q here. It would be surpricing to see anything else. So while not technically a counterfeit, its almost like, your hand got counterfeited on the river.

I agree with both of you. Funny as I was reading these responses I was playing and had a guy not once but TWICE in under 15 minutes play Jx against my 44 and both times I flopped a set of 4s. First one he has J7, turn is a J giving him a higher full house since a J and 7 were on flop. Second one , he has AJ, i flop a set of 4s, he turns a third J and rivers a 3 (there was a 3 on flop) again getting the higher full house.

I’ve lost more full houses over full houses in past week then I probably have in past year lol.

Poker is brutal but yeah in spots like these happy to call off.

Originally Posted by quick

I agree with both of you. Funny as I was reading these responses I was playing and had a guy not once but TWICE in under 15 minutes play Jx against my 44 and both times I flopped a set of 4s. First one he has J7, turn is a J giving him a higher full house since a J and 7 were on flop. Second one , he has AJ, i flop a set of 4s, he turns a third J and rivers a 3 (there was a 3 on flop) again getting the higher full house.

These two situations are very different, since with J7 he needed both his cards to make a full house, but with AJ he only needed the J. A board like J43J3 is highly specialised, because its so easy to make the top boat, and therefore the other boats can absolutely be folded.

I actually did exactly that in a tournament recently, when I had 99 on K93K3. I had just called on the flop and turn to allow the opponent to hang himself on a static board, but when he bombed the river for rest of my chips, I just dont think, it was profitable to call again, given that all his KX now beat me.

It was not a great feeling to make that fold, but in reality my passive line in all likelyhood saved me from losing all my chips to a runner-runner bad beat. Because if you think about it a bit deeper, what are people even bluffing with on a board like this, which is just so dry with no draws. They have a K here 90% of the time, and therefore its completely fine to only call them with the chopper.