$5 NLHE 6-max: Optimal bet at river with full house?

[gochillgo]

This hand developed nicely into a full house at the river. Not sure where to bet to make the pot bigger somehow before the river. When full house hits at the river, thinking was to re-raise some for possible flash and hoping a face card flash will re-raise some more. But eventually villain was able to just call for possible hero full house. When I saw villain has nut flash, keep thinking should I have just blasted all-in instead? Which is the optimal bet, 2x, 3x or all-in?



888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $5.04 (101 bb)
MP: $2.02 (40 bb)
CO: $5.33 (107 bb)
BU: $5.10 (102 bb)
SB: $2.97 (59 bb)
BB (Hero): $4.78 (96 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BB with 8♣ 7♥
UTG raises to $0.15, 1 fold, CO calls $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.62) 2♠ 8♥ 9♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.62) 7♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

River: ($0.62) 8♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.38, 2 players fold, Hero raises to $1.14, UTG calls $0.76

Total pot: $2.90 (Rake: $0.17)

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows 8♣ 7♥ (a full house, Eights full of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 38%, Flop: 73%, Turn: 82%, River: 100%)

UTG shows Q♦ A♠ (a flush, Ace high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 62%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)

BB (Hero) wins $2.73

 

[atcj13]

You probably should be sizing up more here. The UTG player betting makes it very likely that they have the A or K of spades. All in is probably too large. Ace of spades could potentially fold to that large of a bet given the paired board. King of spades should be folding to an all in. I think 1.50-1.80 is a good sizing against most players. Having reads on players definitely helps in situations like this. You can go larger against players that call off lighter or smaller against tighter players.

 

[Sidetracked]

I understand your flop check.

I think betting the turn is better than checking, as anyone with a good spade will call.

That will allow you to get more on the river when the 4th spade hits.

 

[Aballinamion]

This hand developed nicely into a full house at the river. Not sure where to bet to make the pot bigger somehow before the river. When full house hits at the river, thinking was to re-raise some for possible flash and hoping a face card flash will re-raise some more. But eventually villain was able to just call for possible hero full house. When I saw villain has nut flash, keep thinking should I have just blasted all-in instead? Which is the optimal bet, 2x, 3x or all-in?



888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $5.04 (101 bb)
MP: $2.02 (40 bb)
CO: $5.33 (107 bb)
BU: $5.10 (102 bb)
SB: $2.97 (59 bb)
BB (Hero): $4.78 (96 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BB with 8♣ 7♥
UTG raises to $0.15, 1 fold, CO calls $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.62) 2♠ 8♥ 9♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.62) 7♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

River: ($0.62) 8♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.38, 2 players fold, Hero raises to $1.14, UTG calls $0.76

Total pot: $2.90 (Rake: $0.17)

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows 8♣ 7♥ (a full house, Eights full of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 38%, Flop: 73%, Turn: 82%, River: 100%)

UTG shows Q♦ A♠ (a flush, Ace high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 62%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)

BB (Hero) wins $2.73

First, I am not a great fan of defending these types of combos from the BB vs EP raisor, such as 65, 76, 87, even 98, off suited are not very good, even when we get ridiculous odds (for 2 and 5 NLHE mostly).
The motives behind this idea is the absurd rake, so we cannot simply start to defend our BB "for odds" everytime, because we are going to see things like this (EP raises and many players call IP) a lot of times, we must try to pick up the best spot.
It is not wrong to be calling here, I just don't think it is optimal.
Perhaps OTR the best move was to be going all-in, because thus no flush could ever fold and there is only 99 beating us.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[Dkerridge14]

This hand developed nicely into a full house at the river. Not sure where to bet to make the pot bigger somehow before the river. When full house hits at the river, thinking was to re-raise some for possible flash and hoping a face card flash will re-raise some more. But eventually villain was able to just call for possible hero full house. When I saw villain has nut flash, keep thinking should I have just blasted all-in instead? Which is the optimal bet, 2x, 3x or all-in?



888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $5.04 (101 bb)
MP: $2.02 (40 bb)
CO: $5.33 (107 bb)
BU: $5.10 (102 bb)
SB: $2.97 (59 bb)
BB (Hero): $4.78 (96 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BB with 8♣ 7♥
UTG raises to $0.15, 1 fold, CO calls $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.62) 2♠ 8♥ 9♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.62) 7♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

River: ($0.62) 8♠ (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.38, 2 players fold, Hero raises to $1.14, UTG calls $0.76

Total pot: $2.90 (Rake: $0.17)

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows 8♣ 7♥ (a full house, Eights full of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 38%, Flop: 73%, Turn: 82%, River: 100%)

UTG shows Q♦ A♠ (a flush, Ace high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 62%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)

BB (Hero) wins $2.73

With the board run out here and villains position, you should definitely be going for a large bet I’d say 3/4-pot sized bet. Sometime soon even an over bet as a lot of the time that villain gets this far down they are going to turn a high flush so you want to be extracting maximum value from the river.
Literally the only hands beating you are 99 and the top straight flush. Both highly unlikely

 

[fundiver199]

I would fold this hand preflop. Postflop you could lead turn, but given that its multiway, and both straigts, flushes and better two pair are possible, I dont mind taking the defensive route and checking again.

On the river you have an interesting spot, because as the hand played out, he should really never have one of the few hands, that beat you. So yeah you can probably go larger here and perhaps even overbet, but I would only check-jam, if he is a know fish. Maybe a 2$ bet can look bluffy and at the same time cheap enough, that he will hate life and call with his nut flush?

 

[MungBeans]

I have similar thinking to other responders. 78o isn't in my defend against UTG or MP raise from BB range.

I can see why you checked the flop given you have 2nd best pair and there are three other players to act after you.

I would bet your two pair on the turn.

If your opponent has the nut flush like he did, then your check raise seems like a good play to me, however if he has a weaker holding like a weaker flush or something then he might just check back and you lose value. So maybe leading out is a good choice.

 

[cardplayer52]

Ok id fold pre flop. bb with 87o is tricky to play oop. If it were suited Ill take flop once in a while. Flop check is fine im probably check/calling a smaller size bet here. The turn isn't great buy I still think betting here is good. If I get raised im not happy and maybe folding so I guess checking the turn is good too. The river is a clear bet. Now Im sizing this bet in the higher side I think. 4/5 to a slight over bet sounds about right. What hands are really calling me? Mostly flushes that would be happy to call. I think your river raise size looks good. IDK if trying to jam here to make it look bluffy is good or not. Im probably just thinking that because I see all the cards.

 

[John A]

Bet the turn, raise the river much larger. If they have a weak spade or flush, they are folding, but the way you played this there's a lot more value to be had if you're against a Ks or As.

 

[TheBigFinn]

Preflop calling 78o is not great, especially against an UTG raiser, but the two other callers are giving you decent odds. Its decided early with either a long shot hit, but mostly its a fold. Marginally at best.

Hero gets a small piece of the flop, but not enough to raise. Barely enough to call. I like the check.

The turn brings the in the flush draw, and makes the two pair questionable. Several have suggested rasing, but Hero is OOP and this is a classic reason not to play OOP. If Hero raises, what does he do if villian re-raises? Is Villain bluffing or does she have the flush? There is no way to tell. Best to check again, IMHO.

Things change on the river. Now anyone with a spade has a flush. The question is, "How big is ones spade?" There is no reason not to raise. Anyone without a high spade is not calling or likely betting. As the cards lay, the the ace of spades would raise and Hero now has the same problem but with a bigger pot and a much easier shove with the near nuts. I like a raise on the flop.

 

[300HPGOD]

Both turn and river are very interesting spots out of position. I think the turn is probably a mix of betting and checking but I personally prefer checking. I think its close and hate giving a free card so I would not argue for or against checking or betting there.

On the river we have a hand that no one thinks we have. I highly doubt any opponent is putting us on a boat here just as we are not putting any other opponent on a boat. Not all flushes are going to call here. I know this is low stakes but I dont expect 10 and lower spades to call our bet if we lead but I also would expect them to check behind as well so Im not worried about those or targeting them. In this spot we are strictly relying on someone having the A of spades and to a lesser extent the K of spades. Ace of spades is betting if check and imo they could/will raise us if we lead because how many boats would we play this way? How many 8xs are we defending with and our sets would have made noise by now. Therefore, the way to get the most value in this hand is to lead out and hope that Ace of spades is out there to raise us where we then can re raise with villain then more priced in to call. Checking here will either get checks behind from weaker flushes or an Ace of spades will bet and we can then raise but I dont think are getting re raised. Leading allows us that chance at a 4 bet on the river. If no ace of spades is out there checking will lead to check behinds a lot and betting might at least still get a crying call from J or Q spades.

As played with the check I dont think you can jam here as even A of spades would then think "he is never doing that with K of spades" so they then could put you on a boat. I would raise somewhere between 3x and 5x villains bet so I dont think your bet was that far off but you probably could have got another 30-50 cents out of it. No way to ever know

 

[aviatorsam]

I'd go all in in this situation