$5 NLHE 6-max: More profitable to check it down??!

teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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V is 31/20

Yatahay Network - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 110.6 BB
BB: 105.6 BB
UTG: 91.4 BB
MP: 23.6 BB
CO: 189.6 BB
BTN: 355.6 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A T

fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, BTN raises to 2.6 BB, Hero raises to 9.2 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 6.6 BB


--OK-- Here's what I think his range is:

66-99
A3s+ A8o+ up to AQ
KT - KQ
Q9s, QT - QJ
J9s, JT
T9s, 98s ... probably about it.

This is important for the flop.

Flop: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 6 3 J
Hero checks, BTN checks

We have 46% equity vs him on the flop.
But a bet never gets worse hands to fold? If it does, it will require a second barrel, and will only fold his weak underpairs and missed draws ~30c.

~92c, a little over half of his hands, missed the flop (like QTo) and let's assume they'd fold here.
~80c are calling- other than some draws, these are hands that technically beat us.

So should we bet here? This is my main question.


Turn: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, BTN checks

Should we play these kinds of hands this way? Any thing crazy wrong with my thinking?

I originally though in analysis I should bet 1/2 - 2/3 pot on the flop, but if he checks behind with his air, it seems more profitable to check it down. Thoughts?:confused:
 
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Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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Line: checking OTT OOP

V is

Yatahay Network - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 110.6 BB
BB: 105.6 BB
UTG: 91.4 BB
MP: 23.6 BB
CO: 189.6 BB
BTN: 355.6 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A T

fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, BTN raises to 2.6 BB, Hero raises to 9.2 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 6.6 BB


--OK-- Here's what I think his range is:

66-99
A3s+ A8o+ up to AQ
KT - KQ
Q9s, QT - QJ
J9s, JT
T9s, 98s ... probably about it.

This is important for the flop.

Flop: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 6 3 J
Hero checks, BTN checks

We have 46% equity vs him on the flop.
But a bet never gets worse hands to fold? If it does, it will require a second barrel, and will only fold his weak underpairs and missed draws ~30c.

~92c, a little over half of his hands, missed the flop (like QTo) and let's assume they'd fold here.
~80c are calling- other than some draws, these are hands that technically beat us.

So should we bet here? This is my main question.

Hello there, well to know if we are betting here we should know who we are playing with. As a total default we are checking oop in situations like this so we can go for check-call, check-raise or check-fold.
We don't know if weak players are able to fold low-mid underpairs here if we do bet.


Turn: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, BTN checks

Given that our equity drops down, I see no reason to be bluffing here. Our line here is mostly check-folding and check-calling, depending a lot if it comes a Tx or an Ax OTR, and if BTN/Villains bets and how much.

River: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, BTN checks

Should we play these kinds of hands this way? Any thing crazy wrong with my thinking?

I originally though in analysis I should bet 1/2 - 2/3 pot on the flop, but if he checks behind with his air, it seems more profitable to check it down. Thoughts?:confused:

IMO, you played the hand very fine. Personally, I am not a fan of betting in spots where we have no equity or very little poor equity: OTF we barely have one overcard and a BDS, we are blocking AJ but I see no reason at all to be c-betting OTF, OTT or OTR, we must assume to ourselves that we are going to miss some scenarios and we must prepare to get rid of them.
On the other hand, if it comes at least one Spades OTF, or any Tx, Ax or even flops like
KQX, JQx, etc where we have decent equity for bluffing.
We are bluffing, basically, our BDFs and BDSs. Well played, keep it up!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
S

Sidetracked

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No offence intended, but you are really over thinking $5 NL. Play more for value. Straight, good, old fashioned value. You will be pleasantly surprised at what they pay you off with...
 
Aballinamion

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No offence intended, but you are really over thinking $5 NL. Play more for value. Straight, good, old fashioned value. You will be pleasantly surprised at what they pay you off with...

No offense given, but you are underestimating 5 NLHE players: Which value we can represent here? Of course we can have all the AA, KK, QQ and JJ on our range but players at the micros are so weak that we can be called here by totally air and be forced to bluff a turn out of position and out of equity.
I understand your point that Villain could've called with a bunch of dominated hands, but we don't know it and we don't want to know it.
If we want to bet here to represent something we are c-betting flop to fold to a re-raise and to check-fold almost all the turns. Everytime our equity doesn't improve OTT with some Qx, Kx, Ax, because Tx are no good for us, since players are weak enough to never be folding a Jx if they hit, we are forced to leave our hand.
Overthinking is to really believe that our AT missed with BDS have value on a field players don't fold not even under a hammer fall.
It is not because we 3-bet preflop with AT, AJ, AQ and AK that we got authorization to be barrelling for value one or two streets of value when our hand doesn't improve at all: this is overplaying, not overthinking.
We cannot represent AA and KK everytime we put a 3-bet preflop and we are holding Ax or Kx, period.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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Hi Carlos! I was addressing the original poster, not you.
 
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fundiver199

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I like the preflop 3-bet. On the flop I could go both ways here. Its a good board for C-betting, because its difficult to connect with. On the other side your hand is very bad with just some backdoor straight potential and an overcard. It would be nice to have at least a BDFD as well. And you are out of position.

So against most opponents I am fine just checking and basically giving up. Your 3-bet was a bluff, you got called, and you whiffed completely. Nothing wrong with just taking the defensive route and get out cheap. In this case he allowed you to get all the way to showdown, which is great.
 
jaworek1405

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Hello, I prefer only call with hand Ats from the small blind. As played - I think on the flop better one time play some bet at least 50% of the pot and show to opponent that we can have something. When I see that opponent play like hero and opponent check on the flop for me it means a weakness, then I think that opponent has two over cards. Usually I have good reads. If hero would have some pocket pair like JJ + he shouldn't play slow play, because on the turn can came up bad card for us. To sum up, I think better play cbet on the flop and we should try steal this pot. When opponent call our cbet, I usually give up our hand, because I believe that opponent has something.
 
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