This is a discussion on $5 NLHE 6-max: KK, 4 way on QTJ7, is this a nitty fold? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; Second hand of the session so zero information on villains. I know my 3bet pre was small but 4x has not been working for me
As you said already, its recommended to 3-bet to a larger size out of position.
This is of course a rather interesting flop, because you have an overpair and an OESD, but a lot of sets, two pair and straights are possible for the opponents. Even so I am still in a stack off mode here. You could simply bet out with intentions to get it in, if someone raise. Or you could go for a check-jam. You checked the flop, and when this action happen behind you with a very small bet and the other two guys just calling, then I would 100% jam it in every single time.
We can pull out the free program Equilab to see, how KK is doing against the sort of range, we think we might get action from. For sake of simplicity lets assume, just one guy gives us action. I think, a reasonable stack off range to give them would be all the sets, the suited two pair combos, the suited straight combos, the nut flushdraw, all AQ, all KQ, KJs and KTs.
I will not give them all the unsuited straight and two pair combos, because AK should mostly have taken aggressive action preflop, and hands like K9o, QJo or 98o should not be calling the 3-bet. And against this range you actually have 54% equity, so as far as I am concerned lets rockīn roll! I think, just check-calling this small bet and letting everyone see the next card for cheap is to passive.
Pretty much a brick but now they essentially all get it in. Your situation is much more dicey now, because with all this action behind you it is quite likely, you are up against a combination of at least one better made hand and some draws, and if you are behind, you only have one card left to improve. But lets see what Equilab has to say. I plug in turn card 7d and assign two more players the same stack-off range, I used on the flop. In this scenario Hero only has 16,3% equity and he need around 20% to make a break even call.
As played the turn fold is very solid and definitely the right decision, but it would have been better to get it in on the flop.
When you refer to the fact that your 3-bet 4x has not worked as you expected, this can be interpreted that the players of your field tend to call too much to the raises coming from wider positions, like the blinds for example. If you think this is the cause, you should punish the call stations and bet much bigger. The objective is obviously to get the maximum value preflop. They may continue to call anyway, but most likely you are not going to navigate a 4-way pot and that will be better for you, because it will involve less variance from the preflop.
The other reason villains can call a lot is when they can sense that you are 3-betting on a high frequency. So when you 3-bet from wider positions like SB, you will have less credibility regarding the strength of your range.
On the flop you should make your continuation bet. And if we have to choose a size, it should be greater than 50% of the pot, to compensate for our 3-bet preflop that was smaller in size.
The turn should be an absolute brick, but after the super small OTF bet of BB, it is more likely that on the turn some villain will have one of the combos that now are a minimum scale set (77). It also seems that everyone wants to fight to the death, so your decision to fold seems correct, according to how the hand was played.
Thanks for all the replies, not much to disagree with.
The river ended up being checked down and BB showed KJo, MP showed KQo and CO showed A8 spades. Needless to say I was pretty gutted.
All 3 opponents showing up with a draw will of course happen from time to time, but its not the most common occurence. Its a bit like getting KK in preflop, and then the opponent turns over AA. The point being, that sometimes we make the "wrong" decision against our opponents exact holding(s), but in the long run it was the right decision