$5 NLHE 6-max: JJ cold 4bet decision

[dunkyhory]

Mp31/25-38 hands
Co 24/11 - 38 hands

How do you play this spot my plan is to cold 4bet and fold here vs a 5bet.



MP: $10.46 (209.2 bb)
CO: $5.05 (101 bb)
BTN: $5.13 (102.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $5.25 (105 bb)
BB: $5.47 (109.4 bb)
UTG: $4.80 (96 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has J♠ J♣
fold, MP raises to $0.12, CO raises to $0.50, fold, Hero raises to $1.15, 2 folds, CO calls $0.65
Flop: ($2.47, 2 players) 6♣ 7♣ 8♠
Hero bets $0.70

 

[Ducky7]

If you are 4b'ing you probably need to call off vs a 5b jam. I know it kinda sucks but if they shove JJ + and all AK then you will almost always get the odds to call off

As played you have a couple of options on flop, betting small is fine but what is the plan vs a jam - to just fold?

 

[Phoenix2223]

In my opinion, 4Bet Pre is ok here. If you Call this CO 3Bet there is a risk that MP calls too and you'll be on a 3way Pot with such a positional disadvantege. Call his Jam on the Flop depends on the range. If he Jams only KK+, you'll not have the odds to call. If his range is wide like JJ+, AK then you'll have to call.

 

[Tuan]

I like your 4bet if these guys play loose and 3bet light. Usually JJ is a cold call for me in this situation because we only have medium pair. Against a low board, we usually have to pay off to a higher pair.

 

[NHequalsFU]

If I'm 4-betting I'm generally going to call of a 5-bet shove.

I don't mind flatting 3-bets against some opponents. If I have no post flop history with a villain I tend to play a little closer to the vest.

I like the line you took here though I may have bet more on the flop.

 

[dunkyhory]

If you are 4b'ing you probably need to call off vs a 5b jam. I know it kinda sucks but if they shove JJ + and all AK then you will almost always get the odds to call off

As played you have a couple of options on flop, betting small is fine but what is the plan vs a jam - to just fold?

I'm not sure people shove that wide as cold 4bets tend to get far more credit.A'lot of people wont even cold 4bet hands like AK JJ QQ in the micros so the 5 bet is usually KK+.But i still think we can get value with a 4bet what with the popularity of flatting 4bets 100bb deep these days.And i think cold 4bet folding is possibly a better line to take than over calling 3bets oop with these type hands.I'm not 100% sure but something i'm trying to incorporate into my game.

 

[Ducky7]

For sure,

You can argue both. Regardless of where you are it's always a shitty spot, when you cold call your range is always pretty face up and if it comes 9xx and they fire all 3 what do we do?

So 4b'ing like you say gets value because for some reason people call 4b's loads these days and we can just win the pot which isn't a bad result. I mean if they are only shoving KK+ then I guess you could find the fold but I think people will still shove AK here facing a cold 4. If this was UTG vs sb and we were BB I wouldn't 4b this hand and this would change but given the positions I think its still the best option

 

[tiltmonster12]

i wouldn't cold 4bet with JJ. its either a setmine or a fold. And because im setmining, i wouldnt mind it becoming a multiway pot.

When you raised there, were you trying to get folds or were you trying to get value? what part of villain's range can u get value from?

What is CO's 3bet stats?

 

[dunkyhory]

i wouldn't cold 4bet with JJ. its either a setmine or a fold. And because im setmining, i wouldnt mind it becoming a multiway pot.

When you raised there, were you trying to get folds or were you trying to get value? what part of villain's range can u get value from?

What is CO's 3bet stats?

38 hands 3bet stats are meaningless but i think i get value from plenty like AJs AQ 66-TT some suited connectors.And yes i don't mind folds in these spots and it allows you to get away vs the nutted part of villains range if they 5bet imo.If the 4bet is called your only really behind QQ in villains range.

 

[tiltmonster12]

yeah you're right, 3bet stats are meaningless from only 38 hands. I didn't catch that part. Based off you analysis, 3betting and folding to a 5bet could be the right play here.

Whats important is that villain can hold hands that you can get value from or benefit from when villain folds.

 

[TheBigFinn]

My first question is why Hero's 4-bet was so small. Pot was $0.07 in blinds + $0.12 raise + $0.50 3-bet and Hero's call of $0.45 makes the pot $1.14 and subtracting Hero's call the raise is $0.70. (with $4.20 behind). The first Villain needs to call $1.03 with the 3-Bettor behind. Not surprised he folds, but the second Villain (who 3-bet) only needs to call $0.65 to win $1.84. Any range that 3-bets at least calls this raise.

JJ is a good, but not great hand and I think Hero should be hoping for a fold. To get that fold Hero needs to make it pot sized at least. If Hero raise $1.64 he is left with $3.66 behind and a $2.28 pot. If Villain shoves Hero has to call.

But back to the original question, as played, the pot is $1.84 and Hero has $4.20 behind. If Villain shoves, Hero needs to call $0.20 to win $6.04. I fold to a shove.

I think a call to set mine is the right play. Hero doesn't care if the original raiser calls, since Hero only continues with a set.

As played Hero I am not sure what Villain makes of Hero's donk bet. Hero just called marking him with small pairs and perhaps suited broadways. Villain's 3-bet call cuts top pairs of his range, leaving QQ, JJ, TT, and Broadways. I'd shove.