$5 NLHE 6-max: Did I overplay AK (again) here?

ZenAndPoker

ZenAndPoker

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Did I overplay AK here? I'm normally checking this turn for pot control but with the flush draw on the flop I didn't want to give a free card then when shoves over the top of me on the turn I'm getting about 3-1 which if I put his range as two pair with an ace, a flush draw, another AK combo, or a set, I've got about 30% equity and these players definitely bluff this spot or push with a worse ace here once in a while too.

That's about as tight of a range as I could imagine here, because its ignition Zone (aka Zoom or fast fold) and I see players in this population overplaying their AK ALL THE TIME and bluffing a lot too I've run into several times where I get shoved holding AK with TPTK and make the call and they also have AK. They can be really aggressive in spots like this with AK. I also felt it unlikely he had aces for obvious reason.

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)
HERO ($4.98) [VPIP: 22.5% | PFR: 13.8% | AGG: 21.2% | 3-Bet: 2.7% | Hands: 740]
SB ($14.95) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | hands: 1]
BB ($4.99) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
UTG ($13.42) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
HJ ($14.51) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
CO ($8.77) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 100% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]

Dealt to Hero: A K

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Raises To $0.15, HERO Raises To $0.52, SB Folds, BB Folds, CO Calls $0.37

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.02 effective]
Flop ($1.11): 4 A 6
CO Checks, HERO Bets $0.81 (Rem. Stack: 3.65), CO Calls $0.81 (Rem. Stack: 7.44)

Turn ($2.73): 4 A 6 8
CO Checks, HERO Bets $1.51 (Rem. Stack: 2.14), CO Raises To $7.26 (Rem. Stack: 0.18), HERO Calls $2.14 (allin)

River ($13.64): 4 A 6 8 6

CO shows: 4 4

CO wins: $9.53
 
Alucard

Alucard

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bet small flop. it's super dry.
Don't think you can fold there with 60% invested > that's why we try to make optimal sizings on flop & turn to jam river without an issue but at the same time get out from the hand without investing much
 
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quant1986

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Given you are pot committed on the turn, I don't think villain would have any raise-bluff here. Even if your stack size is larger, I doubt if there is any good bluff as you have a lot of good aces in your range and don't have much fold equity.

I think you can bet smaller on the flop as A spade significantly reduces villain flush draw combos.
 
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QA77

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I agree with betting smaller on the flop. I might check back the turn and call most rivers. As played, I think its fine calling the allin since you committed most of your chips and because you beat some hands. I wouldn’t like it once he shoves though.
 
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micromoi

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U played this hand ok for me maybe the 8 would scare u a bit because of the straight that's the only way u could get away from this hand. But its pretty hard u bet the turn and u r pot committed there u have to call and go all-in. It was played OK for me those things happens
 
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3bet pot, microstakes, TPTK. Pretty standard situation, wasn't even necessary to check the spoiler to know you were running into a set.

3bet pot, flop dry AF, you bet out your ace and villain does not fold. At this point you were pretty much dead.

Also your range guestimation is a little iffy. Two pair with an Ace? You think they call (!) 3bets in Zoom (aka nit-city) with Ax or even suited connectors??

Calling 3bets with low PP's is one of THE classic mistakes in micro's. Villains call is horrible. He covers you by a mile and his only hope is hitting a set while you hit TPTK. He's not even close to getting the right odds, neither pot odds, nor implieds.

So next time pay attention when someone calls your 3bet and either raises you on the flop or floats and raises on the turn. It's a set 90% of the time.

You should have been suspicious after the float. What can he float you with? AQo, JJ, would be the only hands that would make sense. AA-QQ would have 4bet pre, AK would have raised on the flop to "defend against flushdraw". Set was the only option IMO. Checking back the turn and folding on the river would have been the correct play.


Another thing to mention, forget the term "pot committed", that's bullshit. You are not playing 100NL+ where people have close to optimal bluffing frequencies.
So calculating pot odds here to make a crying call is just idiotic.

You hit, you got raised, you know you're beat, so there's no reason to light that 2.14$ on fire "cause odds".


Nevertheless it's a good hand to keep in the back of your head. TPTK vs set is such an easy pattern. Once you know how it works, you'll laugh at those muppets attempts to setmine. Call a 3bet and raise flop/turn. It's always a fold :) One thing you could to here is filtering your hand history for those exact situations. 3bet pot set vs. TPTK. It's really always, always the same.


By the way...look at your VPIP/PFR gap. almost 10 points. You have to do something about this. Really.
 
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Edvin55555

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Fold on turn is possible in this spot.
 
Dragon093

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3bet pot, microstakes, TPTK. Pretty standard situation, wasn't even necessary to check the spoiler to know you were running into a set.

3bet pot, flop dry AF, you bet out your ace and villain does not fold. At this point you were pretty much dead.

Also your range guestimation is a little iffy. Two pair with an Ace? You think they call (!) 3bets in Zoom (aka nit-city) with Ax or even suited connectors??

Calling 3bets with low PP's is one of THE classic mistakes in micro's. Villains call is horrible. He covers you by a mile and his only hope is hitting a set while you hit TPTK. He's not even close to getting the right odds, neither pot odds, nor implieds.

So next time pay attention when someone calls your 3bet and either raises you on the flop or floats and raises on the turn. It's a set 90% of the time.

You should have been suspicious after the float. What can he float you with? AQo, JJ, would be the only hands that would make sense. AA-QQ would have 4bet pre, AK would have raised on the flop to "defend against flushdraw". Set was the only option IMO. Checking back the turn and folding on the river would have been the correct play.


Another thing to mention, forget the term "pot committed", that's bullshit. You are not playing 100NL+ where people have close to optimal bluffing frequencies.
So calculating pot odds here to make a crying call is just idiotic.

You hit, you got raised, you know you're beat, so there's no reason to light that 2.14$ on fire "cause odds".


Nevertheless it's a good hand to keep in the back of your head. TPTK vs set is such an easy pattern. Once you know how it works, you'll laugh at those muppets attempts to setmine. Call a 3bet and raise flop/turn. It's always a fold :) One thing you could to here is filtering your hand history for those exact situations. 3bet pot set vs. TPTK. It's really always, always the same.


By the way...look at your VPIP/PFR gap. almost 10 points. You have to do something about this. Really.


Looks like reasonable call to me by villain preflop. 12.5 to 1 implied odds against someone who 3bets 2.5%.
 
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micromoi

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the hand just played it self u cant do much there those things hapens for me its a cooler. What i like is betting bigger on a 3bet 4times is good and on the flop u can go for near pot size its good too. that would not have changed the outcome but it's just microstakes dynamics people out there play there hands if they think that tehy want to see a flop with a hand they dont care about the size of the bet so just make them pay
 
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Spewster

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Looks like reasonable call to me by villain preflop. 12.5 to 1 implied odds against someone who 3bets 2.5%.


Well, depends on how you see it. 7:1 are the odds against hitting a set on the flop, he gets 12:1 implieds, looks like it makes sense.

On the other hand it's not granted you realize your equity here. Same mistake as with flush draws. If you get the right implieds to call, but you know villains likely gonna fold when the board completes, is it correct to call? No, it's not.


Same here. 2.5% 3bet range from hero implies that he only 3bets for value and most likely JJ+ and big aces. So in order to realise your equity you need to 1. hit your set and 2. hero needs to hit his TPTK.

If hero also hits a set with JJ and QQ you're toast, so you need to factor that in as well.



Thats the math side, which can be debated. The biggest mistake, however, is calling a 3bet with a low PP out of position with those odds, cause theres literally only one scenario were that is profitable: the one OP discusses here.

As a general rule of thumb, use the 5% rule. If you have to call more than 5% of effective stacks, don't to it.
As a refined rule, I like 10:1 implieds for calling a 3bet IP and 15:1 to call from OOP.

But again, calling 3bets with marginal hands is so widespread and thats why light 3betting is so profitable in microstakes. Raise, 3bet, call, check, cbet, fold. Rinse/repeat...and fold when OOP villain raises ;)
 
Dragon093

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Well, depends on how you see it. 7:1 are the odds against hitting a set on the flop, he gets 12:1 implieds, looks like it makes sense.

On the other hand it's not granted you realize your equity here. Same mistake as with flush draws. If you get the right implieds to call, but you know villains likely gonna fold when the board completes, is it correct to call? No, it's not.


Same here. 2.5% 3bet range from hero implies that he only 3bets for value and most likely JJ+ and big aces. So in order to realise your equity you need to 1. hit your set and 2. hero needs to hit his TPTK.

If hero also hits a set with JJ and QQ you're toast, so you need to factor that in as well.



Thats the math side, which can be debated. The biggest mistake, however, is calling a 3bet with a low PP out of position with those odds, cause theres literally only one scenario were that is profitable: the one OP discusses here.

As a general rule of thumb, use the 5% rule. If you have to call more than 5% of effective stacks, don't to it.
As a refined rule, I like 10:1 implieds for calling a 3bet IP and 15:1 to call from OOP.

But again, calling 3bets with marginal hands is so widespread and thats why light 3betting is so profitable in microstakes. Raise, 3bet, call, check, cbet, fold. Rinse/repeat...and fold when OOP villain raises ;)


Thanks. That's very interesting. 👍
 
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