$5 NLHE 6-max: 4 bet pot 150BB deep

GreenDaddy1

GreenDaddy1

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490
SNAP on 888. Only 100 hands on villain. No idea on 3 Bet range but he wasnt shy of a 3 bet, 4 times in 100 hands. Otherwise was a 20/18 who was positionally aware.

So anyway I've been 4 betting AK more lately, unless someone is obviously tight. It works great when they just fold... but got myself in a bit of a pickle here :rolleyes:
Looking back this was pretty deep, maybe calling the 3 bet here was a better move.

What does he call the 4 bet with? A lot of AA and KK are 5 betting or shoving. Maybe AK, AQ, AJs are calling? QQ & JJ possible. ATs an outlier. KQs and KJs seem unlikely and I wouldnt be calling with them myself, but it is 5nl so eh stranger things happen. His stats look good enough to indicate a pretty tight calling range here anyway.

Flop: Smoked by QQ and any sneaky KK but value to be had from AQ and setting up an eventual chop with AK. Could be a flush draw, or a straight draw that will call too. So I bet. Guess have to mention KQs too which has flopped 2 pair.

Turn: Interesting turn. I've now got a nut flush draw and a draw to a straight too. It is a card that potentially gives draws to villain too (even completes an unlikely straight if AT floated flop). With my draws to the nuts and top pair top kicker I bet again setting up a potential river shove....
(I didnt jam here because I felt I was loosing value against draws that might call another bet but not call a shove)

River: ...unless the board pairs on a J. Lost my nerve here. Decided that if I was beat I was going to lose my stack one way or the other, but the best way to get the most value was to let him bluff and just call it off. Had I just shoved I'd have expected worse hands to just fold and only better hands to call it off.

These are the sorts of hands I need to really make sure I know what I am doing if I am going to keep on blasting 4 bets around, so get stuck in! :)



Pacific Poker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 214.2 BB
SB: 121 BB
BB: 121.4 BB
Hero (UTG): 152.4 BB
MP: 155 BB
CO: 40 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A K

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, BTN calls 11 BB

Flop: (41.4 BB, 2 players) 4 K Q
Hero bets 16.4 BB, BTN calls 16.4 BB

Turn: (74.2 BB, 2 players) J
Hero bets 37.8 BB, BTN calls 37.8 BB

River: (149.8 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets 112.2 BB, Hero calls 78.2 BB and is all-in

BTN shows A J (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 29%, Flop 45%, Turn 27%)
Hero shows A K (Two Pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Pre 71%, Flop 55%, Turn 73%)
BTN wins 288.2 BB
 
H

Hermus

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AKs is an easy 4-bet with the intention to call a 5-bet jam UTG vs BU or basically any heads up position playing 100bbs deep. 150bbs you're probably not 6-bet shoving with it but feeling pretty okay calling a 5-bet. The range you give villain is spot on. Pretty sure ATs, KQs and KJs are just pure calls though so not as fringe as you think. Probably A5s to playing 150 bbs deep just for the implied odds and blocker value.

Post-flop is super weird because you both absolutely smash it. Nothing much to add here because I would've played exactly the same. I don't especially dislike overbet jamming the turn just because the board is pretty scary and since you're probably stacking anyway I like the fold equity against diamond draws. You could even be freerolling against AKo although that's pretty unlikely with two kings accounted for. Check/calling the river just makes a lot of sense. Mainly because the front door flush draw missed.
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
4-betting is fine, but I think, your sizing is to small. The reason for keeping 4-bets small is, that with 100BB effective stacks we dont want to go so large, that we commit ourselfes to the pot, because then we cant work in any bluffs in our 4-betting range. But here you are 150BB deep and out of position, and for those reasons I think, you need to go much larger to not give him such a fantastic price to take position on you.

Turn
You hit top pair, but its not the best flop in the world, since the Q does connect with some very likely hands like QQ and KQ. I would still be betting for value though, and the small sizing is fine.

Turn
You picked up a flushdraw and a gutshot as well, so you are obviously not planning on folding. But I dont see much reason to continue pushing the action. By betting half pot you are never getting a better hand to fold, and there are also not many worse hands, that will still call. Hands like AQ or TT might have peeled on the flop, but facing another large bet they likely go away now. So I would check now and obviously with the intention to check-call unless he does something unexpected like jam, in which case I would need to at least think about it.

River
As played I like checking now for the same reasons, I would have checked the turn. He jam, and I think, its fair to say, your hand is now a bluff catcher. You are getting almost 3:1, and maybe he could have busted diamonds from time to time, or even the same hand as yours. So while I am not loving the spot, I probably pay him off. But its close and folding would not be crazy either. My experience with these fast fold games is, that when people put in 150 bigs, they tend to usually have it.
 
C

Casey55

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The Jack seems like a bad turn card to bet, whats his 4-bet calling range? TT+, Maybe AJs+ and KQ?

KQ is two pair, JJ turned a set, its hard to think of villain having too much worse, even though we have FD I might check the turn because I cant imagine our hand has a-lot of equity versus villains range.

May be better to check call then put money in against a better hand having small chance to hit flush on river and some of the flush outs will make boats
 
E

eetenor

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SNAP on 888. Only 100 hands on villain. No idea on 3 Bet range but he wasnt shy of a 3 bet, 4 times in 100 hands. Otherwise was a 20/18 who was positionally aware.

So anyway I've been 4 betting AK more lately, unless someone is obviously tight. It works great when they just fold... but got myself in a bit of a pickle here :rolleyes:
Looking back this was pretty deep, maybe calling the 3 bet here was a better move.

What does he call the 4 bet with? A lot of AA and KK are 5 betting or shoving. Maybe AK, AQ, AJs are calling? QQ & JJ possible. ATs an outlier. KQs and KJs seem unlikely and I wouldnt be calling with them myself, but it is 5nl so eh stranger things happen. His stats look good enough to indicate a pretty tight calling range here anyway.

Flop: Smoked by QQ and any sneaky KK but value to be had from AQ and setting up an eventual chop with AK. Could be a flush draw, or a straight draw that will call too. So I bet. Guess have to mention KQs too which has flopped 2 pair.

Turn: Interesting turn. I've now got a nut flush draw and a draw to a straight too. It is a card that potentially gives draws to villain too (even completes an unlikely straight if AT floated flop). With my draws to the nuts and top pair top kicker I bet again setting up a potential river shove....
(I didnt jam here because I felt I was loosing value against draws that might call another bet but not call a shove)

River: ...unless the board pairs on a J. Lost my nerve here. Decided that if I was beat I was going to lose my stack one way or the other, but the best way to get the most value was to let him bluff and just call it off. Had I just shoved I'd have expected worse hands to just fold and only better hands to call it off.

These are the sorts of hands I need to really make sure I know what I am doing if I am going to keep on blasting 4 bets around, so get stuck in! :)



Pacific Poker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 214.2 BB
SB: 121 BB
BB: 121.4 BB
Hero (UTG): 152.4 BB
MP: 155 BB
CO: 40 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A K

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, BTN calls 11 BB

Flop: (41.4 BB, 2 players) 4 K Q
Hero bets 16.4 BB, BTN calls 16.4 BB

Turn: (74.2 BB, 2 players) J
Hero bets 37.8 BB, BTN calls 37.8 BB

River: (149.8 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets 112.2 BB, Hero calls 78.2 BB and is all-in

BTN shows A J (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 29%, Flop 45%, Turn 27%)
Hero shows A K (Two Pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Pre 71%, Flop 55%, Turn 73%)
BTN wins 288.2 BB




Thank you for posting

Have not seen the results.

What we have here is a situation where we are OOP versus a potentially skilled player and we have AKs and 4 bet small. Does that improve our range vs IP V's range.
Is that sizing good for stack protection?
Will it be easier to stack this V when we hit?
Will it be easier to bluff this V? Or will it be easier for the V to bluff us?
Can the V chase 2 streets more easily in a smaller pot?

Looking at results now.

Ouch.

I think the above still applies especially the- can the V chase to the river point.
Also the V calling the small bet with suited connectors which is what ADJD becomes VS AA KK AK

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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