$5 NLHE 6-max: 4-bet bluffing range?

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teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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V has a 3bet stat of 13% and is capable of some aggressive plays. Overall is a good player (at least better than me!)

Question 1: How do I go about constructing a 3-bet calling range?
Question 2: I want some 4-bet bluffs... V's F4b is right around 50%. It's possible he is over calling 4bets even OOP with mediocre hands (99-TT)

From V's perspective- could he have any bluffs? Slowplays? In this session this is the 4th 4bet I've done- he's folded to one, shoved over another and now flats.

Yatahay Network - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 108.4 BB
SB: 126 BB
BB: 186.8 BB
CO: 216.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:diamond: J:club:

fold, Hero raises to 2.4 BB, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero raises to 21 BB, SB calls 12 BB

Flop: (43 BB, 2 players) 4:club: 5:club: 4:heart:
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (43 BB, 2 players) Q:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets 13.8 BB, SB calls 13.8 BB

River: (70.6 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 23.6 BB, SB raises to 91.2 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 112 BB
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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Sorry, forgot to include my justification for QJo as a 4bet bluff-

QJs is a call vs an aggressive 3bettor in position. QJo I think is slightly too bad to call. Some charts I've seen will have QTs as the 4! bluff here, which would be a bit easier to play on most flops.

KTs is a call, so KTo could be a bluff, maybe K9s as well.

I think all suited aces could be a flat, so maybe ATo, A5o are good 4 bet bluffs.

So we have 52c of bluffs.

Our 4bet/call range is JJ+, AK which is 40c. Maybe I could include TT since V knows we are 4 betting light.

I like to think I'm being logical here but always in the hand it feels like I'm just justifying a bad spew-y play.

Yet SB has 12BB to call to win 31... is calling range is mostly capped and hell be OOP. He only have to be good 25%, so can he call wider here?
 
atlantafalcons0

atlantafalcons0

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Im fine with everything except the river bet. Why not just check back? You have loads of showdown value and any bet opens up the opportunity for worse hands to bluff you.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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Im fine with everything except the river bet. Why not just check back? You have loads of showdown value and any bet opens up the opportunity for worse hands to bluff you.

Yea, true. I thought I could get thin value from JJ-99. Maybe it's a little too thin. Perhaps KK, AA bets that size here. I wouldn't have AQ in that spot though.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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V has a 3bet stat of 13% and is capable of some aggressive plays. Overall is a good player (at least better than me!)

Question 1: How do I go about constructing a 3-bet calling range?
Question 2: I want some 4-bet bluffs... V's F4b is right around 50%. It's possible he is over calling 4bets even OOP with mediocre hands (99-TT)

From V's perspective- could he have any bluffs? Slowplays? In this session this is the 4th 4bet I've done- he's folded to one, shoved over another and now flats.

Yatahay Network - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 108.4 BB
SB: 126 BB
BB: 186.8 BB
CO: 216.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q J

fold, Hero raises to 2.4 BB, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero raises to 21 BB, SB calls 12 BB

Flop: (43 BB, 2 players) 4 5 4
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (43 BB, 2 players) Q
SB checks, Hero bets 13.8 BB, SB calls 13.8 BB

River: (70.6 BB, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets 23.6 BB, SB raises to 91.2 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 112 BB
At these lower limits I really don't love having a large 4-bet/bluffing range, specially when I know the opponent is some type of aggro type.
Okay that ranges are very dynamic in situations where SB 3-bets versus BTN, but even so we must pick up our combos to 4-bet for bluff very carefully.

What I do is very simple, so I don't commit blunders at the micros:

4-bet for Value = 3% of hands = JJ+, AQs+, AKo (and sometimes we aren't 4-betting JJ and QQ or we aren't 4-betting JJ and QQ a 100% of times)

4-bet for bluff = 3% of hands = (example) AQs-ATs, A5s-A2s, AQo

I like to have real blockers on my 4-bet for bluff range, otherwise we are trying to get pretty fancy on a stake/limit where players aren't thinking that much (many players are just jamming preflop TT+ or JJ+ regardless of any reading or strategy).

Even at higher stakes, such as 25 NLHE or 50 NLHE, I am not a great fan of being that much creative. I rather being mediocre and profitable, so I don't use these types of combos almost never, unless I am very sure about fold equity preflop.

If we are 4-betting combos such as QJo, our 4-bet range becomes very large and easy to exploit, because it would appear something like this:

AQs-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo (9% of hands)

Let's consider this very quick here, our 4-bet FOR VALUE RANGE is equal to 3%.
How could it be that our 4-bet FOR BLUFF RANGE is equal to 9%?

We observe that we are 4-betting 3% more often than we should and this makes quite a great difference at the end of the day/week/month/year.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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Sorry, forgot to include my justification for QJo as a 4bet bluff-

QJs is a call vs an aggressive 3bettor in position. QJo I think is slightly too bad to call. Some charts I've seen will have QTs as the 4! bluff here, which would be a bit easier to play on most flops.

KTs is a call, so KTo could be a bluff, maybe K9s as well.

I think all suited aces could be a flat, so maybe ATo, A5o are good 4 bet bluffs.

So we have 52c of bluffs.

Our 4bet/call range is JJ+, AK which is 40c. Maybe I could include TT since V knows we are 4 betting light.

I like to think I'm being logical here but always in the hand it feels like I'm just justifying a bad spew-y play.

Yet SB has 12BB to call to win 31... is calling range is mostly capped and hell be OOP. He only have to be good 25%, so can he call wider here?

I didn't read this when I posted: totally forget about charts and tables of ranges.
We must use our instincts to know whether is best to be folding a weak combo or whether it is best to be 4-betting for bluff.

We can be 4-betting QJo or even QTo, where BTN versus SB, however, at the micros, we are almost never doing it. Players overcall, overplay, they tend to jam with TPTK and sometimes with Second Pair and total non-sense bluffs, so we are not facing an soft ground, but a very crazy field, able and capable of doing anything.

Plus, let's consider that we indeed 4-bet QJo what are we expeting? Flops that we see QJx, JJx, QQx, 9TK, and this is going to happen 1% of times?
So, we are investing 20% of our stack for bluff when Villain 5-bet/Pushes we instantly fold and most of flops are dangerous enough.

If we do hit Top Pair we aren't happy because Villain can have KQ and AQ, if we do hit second pair even worse, if we do hit flops with KTx, K9x, we are investing at least one street of value OTF and many times we are going to jam for bluff OTT or OTR because we are already commited and it doesn't matter anymore if Villain has us beat.

We do invest 20% or more of our stack preflop for a non-profitable situation, versus any types of opponents. If at least your combos of QJ were suited, but going with the off-suited combos to 4-bet pots we are simply going to far for a stake that is build upon limitations.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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