$400 NLHE Full Ring: AA crazy spot

[Poker_play]

Seat 1: Hero ($3500)
Seat 2: Seat 2 ($200)
Seat 3: Seat 3 ($200)
Seat 4: CO ($600)
Seat 5: Seat 5 ($200)
Seat 6: Villain ($4000)
Seat 2 posts the small blind of $2.5
Seat 3 posts the big blind of $5
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [As Ac]
CO raises to $30
Seat 5 folds
Villain calls $30
Hero raises to $120
Seat 2 folds
Seat 3 folds
CO calls $90
Villain calls $90
*** FLOP *** [Ah 4d 4c]
CO bets $250
Villain calls $250
Hero calls $250
*** TURN *** [Ah 4d 4c] [4s]
CO goes ALLIN
Villain raises ALL IN ($3000+, covers Hero)
Hero ??
Hey guys..first time posting hand analysis, bear with me. Full $2/5 table at Borgata. Up to 3K, running good..flat the flop because I love the flop bet, am in position, and don't want to push people out with a big reraise.
Reads:
CO: Super tight, solid player. Plays one or two hands an hour..no way 4 in his range after my pre raise I was ready to snap call him
Villain: Loose aggressive player. 4 IS still in his range. Has showed down 5-7 and 78o after some pretty big pre raises , oop. That said, has been consistently turning over the nuts in big situations. The very last hand, showed a huge bluff on a 4-5-6-7 board, for $1000..took it down

 

[cardriverx]

call. Likely u are ahead. Villain would do this with any A so you are beating his range.

Although looking at this a second time. Does the CO call flop and shove turn with JJ-KK?

EDIT: initially this looks like a snap call to me.. BUT if Villian is crazy and we include any A or any 4 in his range, and the COs range is AJs+, AQo+, JJ-KK, than you are actually an underdog. This is so sick.

 

[Poker_play]

haha yeah sick. I guess it's possible but I highly doubt CO wastes the rest of his stack with JJ-KK. A444 board with two big stacks calling a big raise...he HAS to know he's behind, doesn't come across as the type to throw stack like that.
And if he's got the A..have to be putting villain on air?
Take it further..if Villain has air, why would he even reraise? he's getting no value on a bluff here--CO's money is already in, if villain doesn't have the A he has to assume CO does?

 

[cardriverx]

haha yeah sick. I guess it's possible but I highly doubt CO wastes the rest of his stack with JJ-KK. A444 board with two big stacks calling a big raise...he HAS to know he's behind, doesn't come across as the type to throw stack like that.
And if he's got the A..have to be putting villain on air?
Take it further..if Villain has air, why would he even reraise? he's getting no value on a bluff here--CO's money is already in, if villain doesn't have the A he has to assume CO does?

The CO's bet out on the flop is weird. Has he done this usually? Because after he bets $250 there, he's committed over half his stack and has to shove the turn there with really anything.

Now if Villain had the 4, why would he reraise either though? Wouldn't he want a call from you and possibly get more value on the river?

If I was at the table, there's no way I would fold. But looking at it for a while, I probably would have to make some sort of sick laydown her with the 650~ big blinds.

I'd like to here some input from possibly the better players on this forum, because this is such a weird spot.

EDIT: more I look at this, the more I think it's a fold.

 

[bgomez89]

**** im confused. How can we be on the button if there's a villain in between us and the CO?? But yeah, turn is a snap call/jizz pants

 

[bgomez89]

EDIT: more I look at this, the more I think it's a fold.

this statement is the nittiest nit thing ive ever read on this site

 

[cardriverx]

this statement is the nittiest nit thing ive ever read on this site

I would agree with you that I probably would've snap called here actually at the table. And as soon as I read this I thought it was snap.

But what could Villain and CO have? Why is Villain shoving 600+ Big Blinds?

Someone has to have the other A, but what would the other person have?

JJ-KK?

As OP has said, villain has played hands like 7-5 and could have a 4.

 

[Poker Orifice]

this HH is super confusing??? To me it looks like you're on BB preflop?
huh??

 

[BelgoSuisse]

this HH is super confusing??? To me it looks like you're on BB preflop?
huh??

it stops being confusing when you replace CO by UTG in the OP.

 

[baudib1]

fold

 

[bgomez89]

Villain isn't shoving, the co is. Co probably has an ace. Villain is a known spewtard and could have a fullhouse. Plus even if he did have a 4 wouldn't this hand qualify for a bad beat jackpot?

 

[vanquish]

wouldn't qualify for the BBJ because whoever has quads would have to use both of their hole cards which can't happen (pretty sure even if the guy has A4, the casino floor d-bags would probably screw you over and tell you that the A that's on the board counts as the kicker)



fwiw i bet this is a fold because its not like they can both have an A, and its not like anyone's retarded enough to reship 6 buy-ins here without a 4

 

[ChuckTs]

I can't fold. I just don't see the jammer having anything other than Ax - quads don't shove to push you out. I snap because I think the initial shover could have quads and it wouldn't matter to us given the size of the sidepot we win vs the shover, who imo doesn't have quads.

Then again live players are lol.

 

[vanquish]

i don't see the original jammer having anything other than Ax, and i don't see the 600 BB jammer having anything other than 4x tbh. like what, he's just gonna reship JJ into a guy with a $3k stack?

 

[ChuckTs]

ofc not, I think his range is Ax pretty much. Maybe I'm thinking one level above/below the deep jammer but if he has quads, then the initial jammer has Ax a ton, and it makes you, behind him, less likely to have it. He shouldn't be doing anything other than flatting to induce from you.

Or is he just like QUADS, RAISE TO PROTECT?

 

[vanquish]

i'm thinking he's like "he won't fold Ax, time to insta-win $3k!"



also i'm doubtful that (based on the reads OP has listed) the $4k guy has any idea what flatting to induce is

 

[baudib1]

i'm with vanquish, i think he puts both opponents on Ax and figures they won't fold 444AA.

sick spot i admit.

 

[baudib1]

I mean I guess you could sort of flip a coin, but we're really hoping to win a sidepot off the guy who's infinitely more likely to have quads than Ax when everyone in the hand has a super narrow range.

 

[cardriverx]

Alright, I think what we have come to is an amazing fold here is the best play.

I really want to see the results, did he have the 4?

 

[bgomez89]

Obv he had the 4 but I'm never folding still

 

[baudib1]

LOL stovaments

this just gives us 0%

http://www.propokertools.com/simula...=AT-AK,+A4&h3=A2-AK,+43,54,64,74,84&s=classic

 

[Aldito]

Fold pre to avoid spots like this

 

[Poker Orifice]

Fold pre to avoid spots like this

this ^
& 'AA' is just a 'pr.' In nlhe there are 5 cards dealt on the board.

 

[cardriverx]

LOL stovaments

this just gives us 0%

http://www.propokertools.com/simula...=AT-AK,+A4&h3=A2-AK,+43,54,64,74,84&s=classic

Yeah the only way we have equity is if the CO could have anything but an A.

 

[bgomez89]

Honestly, I can't really argue with the numbers(even when I try to tweak the range more in my favor). I guess a fold is actually correct here