$400 NL HE Full Ring: $300 NL HE Full Ring: AQo 3 way facing donk (raise size q)

[loafaBREAD]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$2/$4

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

PFR

1

Currency

$

We f'd up on the flop.... how much do we raise there? Looking for math wizzes!


Oaks Card Club in Emeryville, CA

1/2/3 game ($1 button blind)
$1 rake preflop, $5 drop on the flop (ouch!)

UTG straddle
LJ call, HJ call

Hero on BTN with Raise to $25. LJ and HJ continue. Playing at $300 eff


FLOP:
POT: $80

LJ donks $25, HJ calls, Hero calls

TURN
POT: $155

LJ bets $75, fold, Hero folds



To give V 2:1 on a call we have to raise pot... that's a $150 ish total raise with less than $150 behind. Maybe that's ok to do at these stakes.... what do you think?

 

[loafaBREAD]

Whoops... looks like I made a mistake with my labelling... obviously this is a 1/2/3 live game, not 2/4...

This is my first time ever posting about a live hand, so cut me some slack!

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

Have you played with LJ before? I think I would also lay this one down because all the draws that are out there that an opponent could have and would also fold because of the bets LJ made. Third, I really don't like AQ, gets me into a lot of trouble. Look forward to hearing more about your live cash games. I started playing live tourney's recently, and yet to play in a cash, but would like to eventually.

 

[300HPGOD]

You dont have to worry about giving them 2 to 1 but only 4 to 1 since you should be planning on betting the turn if the draw does not come in. You are in position so there is no worry about it checking through (unless you would want it to with a heart coming) so 4 to 1 is the goal. With that then you should be planning to make a bet so even the second caller is not getting 4 to 1. Some scenarios below... (not taking into account combo draws) and this is how I would do it at the table by guess and testing

Raise to $100: first villain has to call 75 into a pot of 230 so they get 3.06 to 1. Second villain would have to call 75 into a pot of 330 (assuming first calls) and is then getting 4.4 to 1. Verdict: raise too $100 is too small

Raise to $125: first villain has to call 100 into a pot of 255 so they get 2.55 to 1. Second villain would have to call 100 into a pot of 380 so they get 3.8 to 1. Verdict: this would be a large enough bet to make both draw against the odds and then plan to bet non heart turn cards

So $125 is the smallest I would raise to on the turn. At the table I think you would have to time to pick a number and then do the math on one amount and from there know whether it is large enough or you need to go larger. A rule you can use (buts its not concrete) is when facing a small raise like this multiply it by 4 and that should be your raise sizing. Add 1x for every other player in. In this scenario that would work (5*25=125) but if you get more players involved then it would not work as well.

To answer your question about raising here based on our stack, yes I think its fine as we do not want to just call here and we have to protect our hand and the raise could get worse hands (draws) to call us that if they dont hit on the turn we can then jam it down their throat with a what would be an all in bet on our stack size. In this particular hand I dont think two pairs and sets would bet this small (or only overcall as villain 2 did) so I dont think we are up against those hands here which alleviates some fear I have about putting in this many BBs with a one pair hand.

 

[John A]

You don't need to be a math wiz here. I think the above post explains the raise amount just fine. As a poker player, you really want to have basic odds nailed down. It shouldn't even be something you think about really, it should just be automatic. I have a free program I made a long time ago to help people with odds.... you can download and install it here, it's called odds and outs trainer:

https://acepokersolutions.com/poker-equity-calculator/

 

[c0rnBr34d]

The stack sizes are awkward here IMO. I agree if we are raising $125 is prob the only amount that makes sense which leaves us $150 to jam blank turns. I don't think you need to raise 100% of the time though when you're in position and unblock hearts. On the rare occasions that we flat the pot will be $155 and our stack will be $250. We could easily raise all in on blank turns if the donk bettor barrels or fold and lose the minimum when the 2 pair and heart draws come in. If we were much deeper I think the raise frequency needs to go up. I'm also assuming that all 3 players have us covered?

 

[loafaBREAD]

Thanks all for the input. I like the "4x" rule as well, 300HP.... Something like that is good to fall back on when facing pressure in the moment at the tables. Not giving 4:1 is the goal for either player, you are right.


For stack sizes, I think only the donk bettor has us covered. I think we can be a biut more obvious about our calls.. here we can just flat with Qhxh.

V's range is capped and he is bad so we should just raise relentlessly... I think I'd only think about folding a hand as good as this if the middle caller showed aggression.

Thanks for the feedback.