$4 NLHE Full Ring: Two pair on the turn against an unknown Villian. Get it in, trap, or use caution?

palmerd2

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$4 NLHE Full Ring: Two pair on the turn against an unknown Villian. Get it in, trap, or use caution?

I have just sat down at the table and was dealt in for seven or eight hands. I have been practicing playing LAG at micro limits a lot lately, and an ace on the button is like heaven for me. I apologize for the hand format; I do not understand how to save hand histories as text files on Merge. My question is whether it is correct to raise the turn or float to the river. I would also love feedback on how I played the hand up to the turn.

9-handed .02/.04 NL Holdem, Hero is on the Button with Ac 5d. Preflop, it is folded around to me with $3.51 behind. I raise ~2.5 BB to 0.11. SB ($2.93 behind) 3-bets to 0.26, BB folds. Most people would insta-muck here, but not me because 1) folding to such a tiny 3bet is weak and 2) I already have invested the .11 and am paying 0.16 more to win 0.39, 2.43:1 on my money. Finally, I have position, which every LAG loves and adores.

I feel most micro players are going to 3bet lightly as they overvalue suited aces and pocket pairs. So I am putting him on 77+ and AT suited +, AQo+, maybe KQ suited. Pokerstove shows we are a 7:3 dog against that range, which is 2.39 to 1 so it was the correct call, extremely marginally. So we have Ac 5d against 77+,ATs+,KQs,AQo+ in a lightly 3bet pot preflop, total pot is 0.58. Flop comes Jd 9s 5c. Villian checks.

I considered a cbet here but I was having a hard time trying to figure out what I would be trying to represent. Ace Jack? Tens? I opted to check since the pot was already bloated. Also, I feel like he would call with anything in that range I put him on since all of those hands are drawing to overcards or have already made hands. Finally, I didn’t want to get check-raised if he was slow-playing a set of Jacks or Nines as I only had bottom pair (gulp!)

Turn: Ad

This completely changes the dynamic of the hand, as the pocket pairs should now be scared money and the Aces just made it, most of which I am ahead of. There are also two diamonds, but still no made straights possible. I have two pair against a Villian who checked a dry flop. Villian bets 0.28 into 0.58. Hero?

Thanks in advance,

David
 
acky100

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Think you've got it the wrong way around; microstakes players generally don't 3bet enough but they call 3bets too much.

And when people do 3-bet at the micro's you can be sure that A5 is not standing in good shape against their range.

Its a fine hand to open as a steal on the button, but you can definitely find a fold once 3-bet, and id even be folding this first in if the blinds were complete stations as all too often we're hoping to hit one card as the 5 is pretty useless, but then again i dont play very LAG so i cant really help with that.
 
Pokerstudent

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I agree with everyone so far. You MUST fold to a 3 bet at the micros, unless you have a STRONG READ on the villain. But, it almost seems as if you want an answer to the turn instead. That being said. I would check/call, check/fold the turn/river.. Aces up is pretty strong on that board. The A is a great scare card. So if you call on the A, he'll probably slow down if he was bluffing at it. If he has the A, you're losing to AJ and A9. There are no draw for him to be that turn that are realistic except for maybe KQs/K10s, but that call is a very small part of his range and 3-betting K10s is slim unless he realizes how lag you are.

So again, shouldn't be in there in the first place, but given that, check/call, check/fold the turn/river.
 
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Easy fold preflop, a5o is a horrible hand to call a 3bet with even if they are 3betting light. In the micros most players are 3betting Aq+ and JJ+. Unless you have a good read on the player I wouldn't be expecting them to 3bet lighter
 
palmerd2

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Thank you for the feedback. Although you all think the call in position was horribad, Pokerstove says it was dead even. Also, you have to remember that because villian has such a strong hand within that range, it will be very difficult for him to get off of it and the situation could be very profitable (which it is looking like once I turn two pair).

I am not disagreeing with you guys about the call but I think that his light 3bet can and should get called down because I had position, because of the potential of a better made hand vs. an overpair or AK/AQ, and because I was priced in to call (albiet barely).
 
JOEBOB69

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Thank you for the feedback. Although you all think the call in position was horribad, Pokerstove says it was dead even. Also, you have to remember that because villian has such a strong hand within that range, it will be very difficult for him to get off of it and the situation could be very profitable (which it is looking like once I turn two pair).

I am not disagreeing with you guys about the call but I think that his light 3bet can and should get called down because I had position, because of the potential of a better made hand vs. an overpair or AK/AQ, and because I was priced in to call (albiet barely).
Read this
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15/poker-theory/nlhe-3betting-facing-3bet-988213/
 
Stu_Ungar

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Thank you for the feedback. Although you all think the call in position was horribad, Pokerstove says it was dead even. Also, you have to remember that because villian has such a strong hand within that range, it will be very difficult for him to get off of it and the situation could be very profitable (which it is looking like once I turn two pair).
.


You are completely wrong here.

Most 3bets from micro players are value raises and therefore you should fold.

Most of the hands you put in his 3bet range would be called with and not 3bet by most micro players.

Its no good putting an artificially wide range into PS just to justify the call. A5o is a clear fold in this situation.
 
brank

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K, so like everyone has said, super micro players(nl2-nl5) do not 3 bet light 99% of the time. Out of the 1% that do 99% of them have no idea what they are doing and are just mashing buttons.

The problem with calling even VS the range you give is that you wont make much money and you could lose a decent amount. If the flop comes A high you are never folding to one bet on the flop right? Youll have to fold on the turn to any aggression without a really good read. If villain checks the turn and you bet they arent gonna call with much. Youll get the random guy who doesnt want to believe you and will get sticky with thier KK or QQ but not enough to make it worth it. This is a reverse implied odds type of hand. Esp in the super micros there is no need to put yourself in a spot like this as its just way too easy to get chips other ways.


Id fold this pre and I also play a LAG style fwiw.
 
brank

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Ya Stu, I agree the range is really wrong but even if it is that loose its still not a good call.
 
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OP:
Even if your range is correct (which is almost certainly not the case), you are not investing $.16 to win $.39. If the 3-bettor were all-in for $.39 then you would absolutely be correct in that you have odds to call given correct estimation of his range. In fact, if the SB shoved for 39 cents it'd pretty much be a snap call because his range would likely be much WIDER.

The problem you face is that there are future betting rounds in which:

A. you will likely face a large bet and be forced to fold; i.e. you will not be able to realize your equity in the pot.

B. you flop a 2nd-best hand, which is basically what will happen with A5o in a 3-bet pot.

C. you flop a weak draw, 742r and you call a bet.

D. you flop the best hand and don't get paid off.
 
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