$4 NLHE Full Ring: QQ in pos are we getting this allin on flop??

bgomez89

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Total posts
3,127
Chips
0
@stu ok now that makes sense. However are you saying that he's dumb enough to flat Broadways and medium pocket pairs but won't trap with qq+? Or were you just telling me that in FR in general we should 4bet kk+ if we were utg ?
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
there are more combos in his range to spew with than to trap with

You are assuming he can play. Why make that assumption?
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Total posts
3,127
Chips
0
I've listed reasons above that tell me that he could possibly be somewhat aware of how to play
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
I read this thread and thought two things:

1) Why the hell are there 29 replies, when its a 2EZ shove.
2) Are you guys really trying to assign 3rd level thinking to a 4NL player?
 
Makwa

Makwa

Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Total posts
6,080
Chips
0
^ good point about making the spot hot for him, and preventing a furture hot spot for us. At this point the QQ is very likely ahead, but villain undeniably has outs. So while on Tuesdays, Thursdays and alternating Sundays I might milk the villain, the rest of the time I might shove for that very reason.;)

However, to bolster the milking scenario, villain will very likely give us some information if we flat the flop, and come along cheaper. This is giving villain some info on purpose. Perhaps timing can induce the perception that we are trapping him. And we do have position on him.

2.5 orbits (20 hands) isn't long enough to get much of a read on anyone, but it is all we have. That and a pretty nice hand. Villain has seen 4 flops, and c-bet 100% of them. This will be his 5th flop seen in 21 hands. Normal flow of cards might (but not so much at only 20-21 hands) suggest he only see about 2 flops, so he is been proactive..

So it really boils down to how much you want to be gambling vs how much you want to play the game of poker. Are you? Were you? Are you always in the same frame of mind at the table? Rationally, either way will work, shove or milk him like a cow. Results over time will favor you shoving in this situation. The milk him concept is my way of keeping bad beats stresses from overwhelming me.

Mathematically, you should probably shove and just win the hand, Problematically, that is probably going to net you less over time.

Fair analysis, but at 4NL with no real read, I prefer to take the chips here or let him chase. Perhaps you overanalyze here. Don't get smart or tricky at that limit with no reads is my way. With a good read and higher buyin, I might try the milk train also... :p You are not "gambling" by taking +EV, and "Playing the game of poker" can mean getting fancy and hanging yourself in an ABC game :p

Why would you be worried about an overcard comming after you ship?

If your shove was a correct +ev decision it dosent matter what cards come next

Yes sir.

there are more combos in his range to spew with than to trap with

You are assuming he can play. Why make that assumption?

Yes and yes.

SHOVE HERE IMHO :p :D :eek:
 
Makwa

Makwa

Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Total posts
6,080
Chips
0
I read this thread and thought two things:

1) Why the hell are there 29 replies, when its a 2EZ shove.
2) Are you guys really trying to assign 3rd level thinking to a 4NL player?

Right har...

1) It's a slow day at CC. Many more TK as we come back from the Tilt fallout.
2) See 1)

:cool::D
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
I've listed reasons above that tell me that he could possibly be somewhat aware of how to play

Ill list one big reason why he might not be able to play

- He plays $4NL
 
W

watchtowel

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Total posts
583
Chips
0
I think donking ranges are useless without good reads because different players seem to donk different kinds of hands. More often than not donk bets are not strong hands. Don't think QQ could have a better flop, if you fold queens here you might as well just set mine with them lol.
 
Top