$4 NLHE 6-max: Bad call set KK allin?

[OmarRD7]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124LHWgLW

Hi there, poker friends

This time I have doubts about a XR allin call that I made. As you see in the hand above, I had set with Kings, but facing a XR allin when just 73 beat me. I though it is a good call, specially in micro stake, due to I was beating a lot of combos and just 73 was beating me. Of course, I thought I was likely the V could has this hand due this was a normal PF C from blinds, but still, the way that the V played it could be another set trying to jam or a someone with very good odds for flush and OESD, specially because both of us were in deep stack.

So, this was a good call?

 

[tazer]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124LHWgLW

Hi there, poker friends

This time I have doubts about a XR allin call that I made. As you see in the hand above, I had set with Kings, but facing a XR allin when just 73 beat me. I though it is a good call, specially in micro stake, due to I was beating a lot of combos and just 73 was beating me. Of course, I thought I was likely the V could has this hand due this was a normal PF C from blinds, but still, the way that the V played it could be another set trying to jam or a someone with very good odds for flush and OESD, specially because both of us were in deep stack.

So, this was a good call?

I think you hit the nail on the head with the way you explained it. I feel like its a good call. You aren't drawing dead either, still a few cards that can come on the river to give you the best hand. K444555666 all improve your hand above his.

Only thing I'd say you may could have done differently is betting a little higher on your raise on the flop. You don't have the Kd so flush draws can be very live against you. I think you can go higher to protect your hand a little more, but more times than not he will be a losing player over time by chasing his low straight that happens to hit this time. You should be printing more times than not against players like that.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

This hand is pretty gross because of how large the x/r is being 202 BB effective. The way the hand played out I think your call is mostly fine. You need a read to know that this guy ONLY has straights when he overbet jams into our strong line. I don't think we have that read. The reason I don't think we can find too many folds is that the straight that came in on the turn was a gut shot so how does he call the flop raise to get there with a naked gut shot? The only hand that V should show up with that beats us is 8d7d. Maybe a loose 3d2d can make a -EV defend pre then play this way but realistically 73 should have folded pre and if not pre, should have folded to the flop raise unless it was 7d3d. So when Vs value combos start to look like only 1-3 combos (not very many at all) and he can play sets this way (9 combos of 4s, 5s, 6s), he can play 65 for two pair this way, and play combo draws this way like 7s6s, 7d5d I think folding is generally going to be a mistake. Even when we run into the top of his range we have our 23% equity to fall back on. We have the sets crushed, the two pair drawing dead and the combo draws behind like 68/32. I'd make a note on this guy and move on. If V could have flopped an open ended straight and turned the straight I'd be more inclined to give him credit and consider folding but with top set it's rarely too large of a mistake to call in spots like this in my opinion.

 

[300HPGOD]

There are many hands that would play us this way that we beat like lower sets, two pair hands, and some very aggressive players could even play their Ax flush draws this way. Most flops two pair will be hard to envision the villain to have if the cards are spread out yet in this case cards connect each other so the villain could logically have 65 and 54 here. This is always a call in my book and this is one of those cases where you say to yourself if you have it you have it but not folding top set when many worse hands are in play. Good call, just terrible turn card

 

[Jarud]

I think the way you played this hand was fine, just a bit of a cooler.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
3 BB open is pretty standard for cash games these days and totally fine.

Flop
I love the fact, you raised his donk bet rather than getting into a silly slowplay mode. Yes you block top pair, but he can be donking a lot of draws, and you are 200BB deep, so make him pay to see the next card. You went for around 75% pot, which I think is fine, but given how much stack was left behind, and the fact you had the stone cold nuts, this is certainly a spot, where you could explore some even bigger bet sizes against a presumably recreational opponent. Make it a dollar to go, and he will probably still pay with the same range of hands. Classic "crushing the micro stakes" situation.

Turn
Not the greatest turn, since it did make a bunch of different gutshots come in, and a lot of hands picked out equity with 16 cards in the deck now putting out a 1-liner on the river. I am still on board with betting for value though, but now I prefer a slightly smaller size like 60-70% pot. Its rather backward, that you size up, when the relative strenght of your hand just got a lot worse.

And then of course the interesting part is, when he check-jam. This is pretty gross, but I agree with the other guys, that its difficult to fold top set here, when the hands, that made a straight, were only gutshots on the flop. With 100BB stacks it would be a snap call, but for 200BB it is really gross. I would probably still pay him off though thinking, that maybe he is panicking about the wet board and doing this "for value" with a worse set or two pair.

Conclusion
Classic bad beat in the micro stakes, and as explained in this video there is nothing, you can really do about it. Other than perhaps make him pay even more to chase after that 4-outer on the flop. Not that he would nessesarely have folded, but then at least you win more all those times, where he dont nail his card.

 

[fundiver199]

I though it is a good call, specially in micro stake, due to I was beating a lot of combos and just 73 was beating me.

Just for clarification both 87, 73 and 32 were straights on the turn.

 

[OmarRD7]

Preflop
3 BB open is pretty standard for cash games these days and totally fine.

Flop
I love the fact, you raised his donk bet rather than getting into a silly slowplay mode. Yes you block top pair, but he can be donking a lot of draws, and you are 200BB deep, so make him pay to see the next card. You went for around 75% pot, which I think is fine, but given how much stack was left behind, and the fact you had the stone cold nuts, this is certainly a spot, where you could explore some even bigger bet sizes against a presumably recreational opponent. Make it a dollar to go, and he will probably still pay with the same range of hands. Classic "crushing the micro stakes" situation.

Turn
Not the greatest turn, since it did make a bunch of different gutshots come in, and a lot of hands picked out equity with 16 cards in the deck now putting out a 1-liner on the river. I am still on board with betting for value though, but now I prefer a slightly smaller size like 60-70% pot. Its rather backward, that you size up, when the relative strenght of your hand just got a lot worse.

And then of course the interesting part is, when he check-jam. This is pretty gross, but I agree with the other guys, that its difficult to fold top set here, when the hands, that made a straight, were only gutshots on the flop. With 100BB stacks it would be a snap call, but for 200BB it is really gross. I would probably still pay him off though thinking, that maybe he is panicking about the wet board and doing this "for value" with a worse set or two pair.

Conclusion
Classic bad beat in the micro stakes, and as explained in this video there is nothing, you can really do about it. Other than perhaps make him pay even more to chase after that 4-outer on the flop. Not that he would nessesarely have folded, but then at least you win more all those times, where he dont nail his card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK7kK-p_c6A

Man! Thanks for this post very structured and even with a video

Also Thanks to all, my friends. This hand I was pretty sure that the call was the right decision but.. it still hurts But, still, it's always good double check with you, guys. Thanks again

 

[fundiver199]

Man! Thanks for this post very structured and even with a video

You are welcome. I shared a link to the video, because I think, its one of the best ones, Nathan have made, and the hand is similar to yours in so many ways. Micro stakes cash game, deep stacks, recreational opponent. We flop the nuts (in the video the essential nuts) and go for value on the flop. Then on the turn our opponent gets extremely aggressive and raise us all in, and when we see his hand, we are like "WTF, how did he ever get to the turn with that hand????" And the video explains very well how to deal with this situation, which is very common in micro stakes games

 

[Yontox]

Do you have any player stats? I think it's an edgy call. You have top set but they show a lot of signs of them having a speculative hand