25nl AA 3-way, scary flop, OOP

Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Total posts
1,757
pokerstars Game #15067261199: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/02/04 - 22:54:28 (ET)
Table 'Gudula' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: BNA Act ($12.10 in chips)
Seat 2: lookwow ($31.15 in chips)
Seat 3: Tygran37 ($26 in chips)
Seat 4: jk_bullfrog ($30.60 in chips)
Seat 5: jpdquickie ($21.05 in chips)
Seat 6: bulja ($27.85 in chips)
Seat 7: ibyhomes ($13 in chips)
Seat 8: moulure23 ($22.60 in chips)
Seat 9: $$qLCare$$ ($24.30 in chips)
Tygran37: posts small blind $0.10
jk_bullfrog: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tygran37 [Ah As]
jpdquickie: folds
bulja: folds
ibyhomes: folds
moulure23: calls $0.25
bulja leaves the table
$$qLCare$$: folds
BNA Act: raises $0.75 to $1
lookwow: folds
Tygran37: raises $2.50 to $3.50
jk_bullfrog: folds
moulure23: calls $3.25
BNA Act: calls $2.50
*** FLOP *** [Jd Qd Kh]
hongzhong joins the table at seat #6
Tygran37: ???



Preflop raise big enough?

BNA is pretty loose preflop with calling big raises and will get all in post with TPTK but generally doesn't do anything too stupid post. No real read on the other guy.

What's our line here oop?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
I check this flop, and just observe the amount of action that goes down. If there are still 2 players interested in the flop when it gets back to you, I would consider folding, since this flop hit everyone but you.

If you bet, you're pretty much committing your stack, since the pot is so large after a 3-bet called 3 ways. And this flop is just too ugly to put our stack into IMO.

/me checks, and plans to fold to any real action.
 
B

Bentheman87

Guest
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Sep 6, 2007
Total posts
794
I agree this is a bad flop but I don't think we can give up so quickly. You should check and call any reasonable bet.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
I agree this is a bad flop but I don't think we can give up so quickly. You should check and call any reasonable bet.
What if the action goes bet 6$, fold, then what? We call 6$ and we're facing a 9+12 = 21$ pot on the turn with about 18$ left behind....

This is a scenario where calling isn't an option. We either want to get all our money in on the flop where we have the most outs to come and the most fold equity, or we want to eject cheaply.

We're 38% against KQ & QJ
21% against JJ & QQ (we could be against KK, but I doubt they'd want to go 3 way to a flop)
And we have AK/AQ/AJ crushed, except for AhKh who we're flipping with.

The only other option I see is just jamming this flop, or a check-raise all in. Just flat calling is too passive for my taste. We're not going to call our chips into the middle, because we're going to need some fold equity on our side here given the wide range of hands that we could be against, IF we want to play this pot.
 
Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Total posts
1,757
OK, yeah I agree..out of position with that flop there's a whole lot that beats me.

So the action went:

Tygran37: checks
moulure23: checks
BNA Act: bets $8.60 and is all-in
Tygran37: ???

Pot is $19.35 at this point.

I don't want to lead the analysis with what I'm thinking/leaning towards yet. Fwiw BNA will definitely do this with just about anything he might have.... AK, AQ, AJ and KT...possibly JT being the main culprits that he is likely to have we are currently beating (yes this guy is likely to shove any of those here on the end if he thinks he can get folds). He would also do this with a flush draw. I doubt he has KK/QQ.. But he certainly could have AT, KQ, KJ, JJ and there is still an unknown to act behind me.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Shove all your chips in or fold.

My previous post still applies. If you think BNA's range is this large, then I don't mind a shove. And we still shove since we need fold equity, many hands (of moulure's) that have us beat can still fold, blah blah.
 
GunslingerZ

GunslingerZ

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Total posts
411
The guy behind you open-limped, then called TWO raises cold. That screams of a small pair set-mining, or a very passive AK. I wouldn't put him on JJ-KK, or any 2-pair.

You definitely would call against BNA's range. I agree with the shove.
 
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Bentheman87

Guest
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Sep 6, 2007
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794
I remember reading this in HoH. Harrington said if you see a player limp in early position, then just call a raise and a reraise, he's either making a weird trap with a huge hand or he's a fish. Makes sense, because if his hand is strong enough to call a raise and a reraise preflop then obviously it was strong enough to raise to begin with, but he just limped. And you say BNA is very loose, so you probably have him beat. It's a tough situation because you're trapped between two players. If it went check check he pushed, then moulure folded then you would have a much easier call.
 
B

baconn

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Total posts
75
You either want to shove or fold depending on your read of your opponents. Calling would be too weak.
 
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