25NL: A6o BB Turned Trips, River Action

Stick66

Stick66

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Nov 10, 2005
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Very 1st hand at this table, so no reads. Free flop from the Big Blind and I'm basically in a limpfest in bad position with a bad kicker throughout the hand.

Question 1: Should I have made a move on the turn with such weak flop action? I didn't because I feared a bigger Ace or better.

Question 2: With around $9.00 in the pot after rake and 2 others behind me still to act, what should I do on the river? Call $5.50, raise, push, or fold?


pokerstars GAME #14418713497: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/01/08 - 17:36:36 (ET)
Table 'Prisma II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: theo1986222 ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Justmemarius ($4.20 in chips)
Seat 3: fuhwefuwe ($8 in chips)
Seat 4: Ian013 ($4.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Wolack ($6.25 in chips)
Seat 7: bird9999 ($20.85 in chips)
Seat 8: MrSticker66 ($20 in chips)
bird9999: posts small blind $0.10
MrSticker66: posts big blind $0.25
fuhwefuwe: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [6h Ad]
theo1986222: calls $0.25
Justmemarius: calls $0.25
fuhwefuwe: checks
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
bird9999: calls $0.15
MrSticker66: checks
*** FLOP *** [7d Js As]
dickweeds69 joins the table at seat #6
bird9999: checks
MrSticker66: checks
theo1986222: bets $0.25
Justmemarius: folds
fuhwefuwe: folds
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
bird9999: folds
MrSticker66: calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [7d Js As] [Ah]
MrSticker66: checks
theo1986222: bets $0.25
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
MrSticker66: calls $0.25
*** RIVER *** [7d Js As Ah] [9h]
MrSticker66: checks
theo1986222: checks
Ian013: checks
Wolack: bets $5.50 and is all-in
MrSticker66: .........
theo1986222: .........
Ian013: ............
 
HartAttack3

HartAttack3

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to tell you the truth im not really afraid of another ace here. The betting felt like people were chasin spade, chasin str8 and/or had a mid pair up to 9s and maybe hit set The way i look at it, a-10 may not have but anything higher that beats you odds are would have. If he has anything a-8 or less without hittin fh u split. I think i fold but the strong case can be made for a call here.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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As played I'm probably making a crying call on the river and folding to any reraise behind me, but I think a fold is fine. Raising gets us nowhere as a) we don't push out any better hands and b) we don't get value from any worse hands. I think the biggest issue in this hand is how you played up to this point, though. We're clueless as to our opponents' ranges here, aren't sure how our hand stacks up against them, and have made our whole decision pretty tough.

Something I try to do frequently in spots like these is to bet the flop, or if it gets checked around, then bet the turn. The reason for this is to get our information for a cheaper price so that we don't find ourselves in these types of spots later on in the hand.

Say the action goes...

Dealt to MrSticker66 [6h Ad]
theo1986222: calls $0.25
Justmemarius: calls $0.25
fuhwefuwe: checks
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
bird9999: calls $0.15
MrSticker66: checks
*** FLOP *** [7d Js As]
dickweeds69 joins the table at seat #6
bird9999: checks
MrSticker66: bets $1
theo1986222: raises to $3
Justmemarius: folds
fuhwefuwe: folds
Ian013: folds
Wolack: folds
bird9999: folds

...like that. Now we've spent $1 to find out where we're at (as well as protect vs draws, and get value from worse pairs), and can safely fold assuming theo limped with a bigger ace, or is making a very strong bluff that we can't call.

So basically by betting earlier on in a hand we make our later decisions a lot easier. This is similar to playing tight preflop hand requirements makes your postflop decisions a lot easier as well vs playing a loose aggressive style preflop, and facing all types of tough decisions postflop.
 
Effexor

Effexor

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I would have bet 3/4 the pot on the turn. Most of the time people will raise PF with AJ+ and sometimes AT (or worse) so that narrows down the possibility that someone has the case ace. Plus, you will get the pocket pairs that haven't hit to fold and some gutshot draws out also I'd hope.

As played I make the crying call and watch him turn over 99 or maybe even some junk like a T8. He was on the button and had the odds to call with just about any possible hand.

* disclaimer * I'm a total fish at ring games according to my ever declining BR, so take it for what it's worth.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Plus, you will get the pocket pairs that haven't hit to fold and some gutshot draws out also I'd hope.

While I agree we should be betting at some point on the flop/turn, I disagree that it's for this reason. Any significant bet from us would make calling with a non-set pocket pair or a gutshot a losing play - ie we want calls from those hands.
 
Effexor

Effexor

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Chuck beat me by a millisecond, and we both used the term "crying call".

I actually take great pride in the fact I came to the same conclusion as Chuck"I own ring games"Ts.

*pats self on back*
 
Effexor

Effexor

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oh and 1 millisecond later I get the reality check once again.

Thanks for the 3 seconds of feeling good about myself anyways Chuck.:)

I guess my reasoning about the pocket pairs folding out, and the gutshots too was that then the 9 that hits on the river probably couldn't have helped anyone.
 
B

baconn

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you should have raise either on flop or turn to see where you are at, calling is too weak, now you are stuck in a tought decision, you're kicker is pretty weak here but i think a call is better than an all in shove
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Umm, I fold this as standard as played. You're basically only beating a bluff (seeing as you split with weaker Aces), and only a complete idiot is bluffing here into three players.

Bet the turn, definitely. The second Ace makes it that much less likely that anyone else has one, even against three opponents, so get some value from those who are looking to draw.

I expect villain to have 'slowplayed' AJ or 77 a lot here, or perhaps to have 'got there' on the river with A9/99.
 
Stick66

Stick66

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This is a case where I felt proud to have folded the river, but then realized I should have bet the turn. It's almost like I had myself locked in passive calldown mode from the beginning due to my crappy kicker. I really should have stopped to think more on the turn.

Thank you to all who responded.


POKERSTARS GAME #14418713497: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/01/08 - 17:36:36 (ET)
Table 'Prisma II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: theo1986222 ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Justmemarius ($4.20 in chips)
Seat 3: fuhwefuwe ($8 in chips)
Seat 4: Ian013 ($4.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Wolack ($6.25 in chips)
Seat 7: bird9999 ($20.85 in chips)
Seat 8: MrSticker66 ($20 in chips)
bird9999: posts small blind $0.10
MrSticker66: posts big blind $0.25
fuhwefuwe: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [6h Ad]
theo1986222: calls $0.25
Justmemarius: calls $0.25
fuhwefuwe: checks
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
bird9999: calls $0.15
MrSticker66: checks
*** FLOP *** [7d Js As]
dickweeds69 joins the table at seat #6
bird9999: checks
MrSticker66: checks
theo1986222: bets $0.25
Justmemarius: folds
fuhwefuwe: folds
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
bird9999: folds
MrSticker66: calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [7d Js As] [Ah]
MrSticker66: checks
theo1986222: bets $0.25
Ian013: calls $0.25
Wolack: calls $0.25
MrSticker66: calls $0.25
*** RIVER *** [7d Js As Ah] [9h]
MrSticker66: checks
theo1986222: checks
Ian013: checks
Wolack: bets $5.50 and is all-in
MrSticker66: folds
theo1986222: folds
Ian013: calls $3.50 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Wolack: shows [9d 9s] (a full house, Nines full of Aces)
Ian013: mucks hand
Wolack collected $10.25 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.75 | Rake $0.50
Board [7d Js As Ah 9h]
Seat 1: theo1986222 folded on the River
Seat 2: Justmemarius folded on the Flop
Seat 3: fuhwefuwe folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Ian013 mucked [Jh Ks]
Seat 5: Wolack (button) showed [9d 9s] and won ($10.25) with a full house, Nines full of Aces
Seat 7: bird9999 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: MrSticker66 (big blind) folded on the River

 
S

switch0723

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Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
very good fold sir, and also lol at k,j
 
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