$25 NLHE 6-max: How would you of played this?

[Ianmacca99]

Folds to button blinds 10c 25c
Button 100+bb
SB 85bb
Hero 100+ bb

Hero is dealt 2h 2d button opens to 3bb sb calls and hero calls

(Pot) $2.25
Flop 2c 10h As

Sb checks hero checks button bets $1.87 sb folds hero calls.
Decide against a raise as I want to keep his full range in

Turn 8c
(Pot) $6.99
Hero checks button bets $3.90
Hero raises to $9.80 button calls
Decide to bump it up now to get some money in the pot at this point I am putting him on AK AQ type holdings think higher sets or 2 pair hands could also be there a small amount of the time being slow played. I think draws could also be a possibility

River Qc
(Pot) $26.59
I shove for $18.65 and get called

Didn't have much info on villan as only played around 15 hands at this point seen him open and fold to 3 bets twice

Hero shows three of a kind 2s
Button shows K c 10 c and wins the pot. Should I of checked that river or do you think it was right to go for value once I had took the betting lead on the turn?

 

[Alucard]

looks fine to me

 

[fundiver199]

I think, this is a pretty close spot, and its sort of difficult to not get results oriented, when I know his hand. You ended up losing to a flush, and if that was the only draw, that came in, then I would say, its just a cooler. However straightdraws came in as well. KJ seem unlikely, when he called a turn raise, but J9 is certainly possible, and in steal position he can easily have all 16 combos of J9.

So you lose to his flushes, 16 combos of J9 and at least 6 combos of better sets. This mean, you need him to call with quite a lot of two pair or top pair for this bet to be for value. And does he really always do that? If he sit here and look down at AT or A8, does he not at least sometimes find a fold on the river, when you bomb it for almost the size of the pot?

I think, he does. This is 25NL, so he is probably at least somewhat competent, and he also need to consider the fact, that so many draws came in on the river. You could easily have those draws as well, and you have few hands left, that want to bluff the river.

So I lean towards check and then make a decision, if he bet. And honestly as much as it sucks, this might actually be a bet-fold, if he jam the river, as probably he would. Not saying I could always get away from this in real time though. Its super tough, but when I play my absolute A-game, I will sometimes fold in spots like this.

 

[pentazepam]

You almost turn a set into a bluff on that river.

Very hard to get called by worse with the lowest possible set. Unless you have the image of a maniac and have bluffed a lot lately.

Since you in a sense already got paid by draws (and worse made hands) when villain calls the raise on the turn I would check this river against most players. And probably fold to anything but a very small bet.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

I think it's perfect up to the turn. These awkward SPR spots are tricky and since we were not controlling the action we really don't have much in the way of options here. I don't like the turn raise size for particularly this reason. We are pricing in a ton of draws and almost committing ourselves to get it in or call it off whether they hit or not. With your current sizing we are left with an SPR of 0.7. There is no way we can bet fold river with this SPR so I think jamming is mostly fine. Again, the big drawback to the smaller turn raise size is implied odds for the draws. I think we kind of price the draws in with our turn raise sizing since they know they are getting it all in position if they hit. Since we are OOP I would rather size up our raise from as large as jamming turn to a minimum of 3.5x but perhaps even larger. The point is, once we make ANY reasonable turn raise we are both OOP and mostly pot committed. We can try to find some x/f on the worst rivers like this one but given Vs line, there aren't a ton of back door club draws that they should have (gut shot straights also don't often take this line with these sizings IMO) and if we make even an occasional incorrect fold it's a disaster. Since we are effectively jamming turn and V has the position advantage I would like to apply a bit more pressure.

 

[fundiver199]

I agree with those, who comment, that the turn raise is to small. Your size was only 40% of the pot, and on a wet board like this you want to put the hammer down on the turn. Its fine, if he fold a draw, because then this outcome will not happen.

 

[Ianmacca99]

Thanks guys so we think something around $15 to ripping it in on the turn was the play. Looking back at it I didn't like my river jam and was hoping him have AQ when I made the play but once called I knew I was beat

 

[TheDude6622]

looks fine to me

Looks fine to me too. You played it amazing and he donk called the turn with a gutter and caught.

 

[GWU73]

I like a 3bet more vs a steal. Given the call pre flop I am ok with checking, but you need to be check raising there. Any Broadway is likely either counterfeit you or kill your action. Plus if the guy has big ace you may get stacks in. The turn check raise was ok, but it puts you in an awkward spot of the river flushes or completes a straight. I think leading would have been better. River card was a little unlucky. It brought the type of card that lets people with 1 pair fold, and brings in possible straights. You are either crushing opponent or you are crushed. You should check, and hope to show down cheap.

 

[fundiver199]

Looks fine to me too. You played it amazing and he donk called the turn with a gutter and caught.

He had a gutshot, a flushdraw and a pair, so of course he called. It would be a huge mistake by him to fold to a small turn raise.

 

[Aballinamion]

Hello Ianmacca99 how you doing? Thanks for sharing your hand with us. Very nice hand!
I am player of 2 NLHE and 5 NLHE and play at maximum 10 NLHE but I made a Cash Course to play 100 NLHE, so I adapt my theory and methods a little.

A little analysis


1) The Preflop Action:

Villain is in the Button with a pretty wide range most of times, opening 3x. The Button has 100 BB Effective Stack. The SB calls the 3x Raise with 85 BB Effective stack behind.
Now Hero in the Big Blind has incredible odds to call this raise to setmine, because both players are relatively Deep Stacked. This is an awesome spot for setmining and Hero decides to call which I believe it is good in general, because it is strange to 4bet light such a weaker Pocket Pair Range from the Big Blind (22-66).
So, I believe the call is fine. If anybody has a different opinion about it please I would like to know it.

2) The Flop action:

Pot size: 9 Blinds

Flop: 2c 10h As

SB checks, Hero checks and Villain Button bets 7.48 Big Blinds in a pot of 9 Blinds???? What???? Because it is multiway Pot it is a pretty huge bet, what is that, more than 80% of the Pot in the Flop versus 2 unknown players out of position (you said that you had only a 15 hands sample with this villain, so I deduce he also had the same sample of you).

3) What Villain in the Button might have in a semi-dry Flop to be betting that much?

A)Values: A2s (not a lot of combos because BB has a lot of removal but just for the purpose of the analysis) T2s which decided to open thinking that the Fish player in the SB would call and that's good being in position, ATo, ATs, are easy hands to open from the Button as a default, a few combos of TT and AA,
B) Bluffs: nonetheless, as long as he/she is in the Button it is more common to him/her to show in his/her Range hands as AKo, AQo, AJo, QJo, QJs, KQo, KQs, QTo, QTs, Q9o, Q9s, KJo, KJs, KTo, KTs, JTo, JTs, J9o, J9s and so on because the Button's Range is very wide most of times so it will easily have a lot of these combos, specially when he bets that much.
My conclusion: When Button makes a large bet like that he has more bluffs than values in his range (a thousands missed broadways in a rainbow flop and only TT, and AA, so, theoretically, Hero in the Big Blind would be losing with the Third Nuts in the Flop, which I believe, when Villain/Button bets so gigantically, that he has a gutter, a draw, etc.

Hero decides to call the 7.48 Big Blinds bet to see a Turn, which I believe it is good but it is not so good as Check-Raising for Value here. You said "Decide against a raise as I want to keep his full range in". And that's what I believe it is a bad ideia. Because after this call you might have to see some back doors flushed get there in the river, and that's not good for you. You might have to see some back door Straights and some Straights being completed, which is also not good.
I believe the Check-Raise here in the Flop will be the most profitable play, than calling, after SB folds, because you have only 15 hands played with this Villain and I believe he is a decent player (because he is playing 25 NLHE), ans specially if you certain that he is a Regular you should be bumping, shooting, killing his odds in the Flop.
When you keep his entire Range of semi-bluff with your call you just gave Villain a good price for bluffing plus position to hit his draws, two pairs, sets, whatever, let's not forget that villain also could have 33-99 as Pocket Pairs and his also that could also setmine in the Turn.
IF the Villain in the Button was a Fish I will seriously advocate for Hero in the Big Blind to Check-Raise for a size as much as you wanted, because in a situation like that you will be winning by far over this X hypothetical Fish, something like 70%, 80%, 90% equity versus him/her.
Note: I believe this guy is not a Regular, because of this gigantic C-Bet Flop MultiWay. But, maybe he had his particulars reasons...

4) The Turn

Pot size: 27.96 BB

Board configuration Turn: 2c 10h As 8c

Hero in the Big Blind Checks and the Villain in the Button hold his horses making a smaller C-Bet Turn of 15.6 Big Blinds (a little more than 1/2 pot). Now the Back Doors Clubs got there and some other part of his range such as T8s, 97s, J9s.
Now Hero bump it up and Check-Raises to 39.2 BB and Button CALLS! OMG this is so amazing that I almost cannot believe.
I believe many lines would have worked against this Villain such as Check-Raise Flop huge sizing, Donkey Bet Flop huge sizing, Donkey Turn and Check-Raise Turn because...it is complicated...
You said that "Decide to bump it up now to get some money in the pot at this point I am putting him on AK AQ type holdings think higher sets or 2 pair hands could also be there a small amount of the time being slow played. I think draws could also be a possibility".

5) The River, the river...the river...

Pot size: 106.36 BB

Board configuration River: 2c 10h As 8c Qc (Nasty dealer! )

I guess if the Villain in the Button had AK e AQ and decided to call a Check-Raise Turn like that (considerin 25 NLHE as a low stakes games) he would be very, very strange. Mostly Two Pair and Draws are calling in a situation like that and both are good.
If he had a bigger set such as TT, AA, 88, it would be unlikely that he would be Calling your Check-Raise Turn and not shipping all the money in for protection.
I believe you played good but, not so good as it could be, because:
1) Your call in the Flop does not protect your hands from Back Flushes, and Back Door Straights or even a higher Set that could reach the Turn/River
2) When you Check-Raise a weaker Villain like that in position it is unlikely that he is going to leave his draws, because he is watching too much Doug Polk channel and believe he has odds at 25 NLHE (let's forget about the Rake a little...). I don't want to offend anybody but I really believe, my friend, that your Villain in the Button is a weak Regular or a Fish anyhow.

Hero has 74.6 BB left and decides to put a shove, which, personally I don't like it. You will only get called by Flushed and Straights in a situation like that.
Remember, you have started the hand with 100 BB and in the River you still had nearly 75!!! Wait for a better spot, Check the River because if the player has a Straight and sometimes a little sensibility, he/she could also be Checking River because of the Queen of Clubs who got there.

Question:

When you shove the River do you really expect to be paid by worst hands?
When you shove the River and Villain does not have anything to call with and Folds, did you gain value or lost it?


Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[Ianmacca99]

Hello Ianmacca99 how you doing? Thanks for sharing your hand with us. Very nice hand!
I am player of 2 NLHE and 5 NLHE and play at maximum 10 NLHE but I made a Cash Course to play 100 NLHE, so I adapt my theory and methods a little.

A little analysis


1) The Preflop Action:

Villain is in the Button with a pretty wide range most of times, opening 3x. The Button has 100 BB Effective Stack. The SB calls the 3x Raise with 85 BB Effective stack behind.
Now Hero in the Big Blind has incredible odds to call this raise to setmine, because both players are relatively Deep Stacked. This is an awesome spot for setmining and Hero decides to call which I believe it is good in general, because it is strange to 4bet light such a weaker Pocket Pair Range from the Big Blind (22-66).
So, I believe the call is fine. If anybody has a different opinion about it please I would like to know it.

2) The Flop action:

Pot size: 9 Blinds

Flop: 2c 10h As

SB checks, Hero checks and Villain Button bets 7.48 Big Blinds in a pot of 9 Blinds???? What???? Because it is multiway Pot it is a pretty huge bet, what is that, more than 80% of the Pot in the Flop versus 2 unknown players out of position (you said that you had only a 15 hands sample with this villain, so I deduce he also had the same sample of you).

3) What Villain in the Button might have in a semi-dry Flop to be betting that much?

A)Values: A2s (not a lot of combos because BB has a lot of removal but just for the purpose of the analysis) T2s which decided to open thinking that the Fish player in the SB would call and that's good being in position, ATo, ATs, are easy hands to open from the Button as a default, a few combos of TT and AA,
B) Bluffs: nonetheless, as long as he/she is in the Button it is more common to him/her to show in his/her Range hands as AKo, AQo, AJo, QJo, QJs, KQo, KQs, QTo, QTs, Q9o, Q9s, KJo, KJs, KTo, KTs, JTo, JTs, J9o, J9s and so on because the Button's Range is very wide most of times so it will easily have a lot of these combos, specially when he bets that much.
My conclusion: When Button makes a large bet like that he has more bluffs than values in his range (a thousands missed broadways in a rainbow flop and only TT, and AA, so, theoretically, Hero in the Big Blind would be losing with the Third Nuts in the Flop, which I believe, when Villain/Button bets so gigantically, that he has a gutter, a draw, etc.

Hero decides to call the 7.48 Big Blinds bet to see a Turn, which I believe it is good but it is not so good as Check-Raising for Value here. You said "Decide against a raise as I want to keep his full range in". And that's what I believe it is a bad ideia. Because after this call you might have to see some back doors flushed get there in the river, and that's not good for you. You might have to see some back door Straights and some Straights being completed, which is also not good.
I believe the Check-Raise here in the Flop will be the most profitable play, than calling, after SB folds, because you have only 15 hands played with this Villain and I believe he is a decent player (because he is playing 25 NLHE), ans specially if you certain that he is a Regular you should be bumping, shooting, killing his odds in the Flop.
When you keep his entire Range of semi-bluff with your call you just gave Villain a good price for bluffing plus position to hit his draws, two pairs, sets, whatever, let's not forget that villain also could have 33-99 as Pocket Pairs and his also that could also setmine in the Turn.
IF the Villain in the Button was a Fish I will seriously advocate for Hero in the Big Blind to Check-Raise for a size as much as you wanted, because in a situation like that you will be winning by far over this X hypothetical Fish, something like 70%, 80%, 90% equity versus him/her.
Note: I believe this guy is not a Regular, because of this gigantic C-Bet Flop MultiWay. But, maybe he had his particulars reasons...

4) The Turn

Pot size: 27.96 BB

Board configuration Turn: 2c 10h As 8c

Hero in the Big Blind Checks and the Villain in the Button hold his horses making a smaller C-Bet Turn of 15.6 Big Blinds (a little more than 1/2 pot). Now the Back Doors Clubs got there and some other part of his range such as T8s, 97s, J9s.
Now Hero bump it up and Check-Raises to 39.2 BB and Button CALLS! OMG this is so amazing that I almost cannot believe.
I believe many lines would have worked against this Villain such as Check-Raise Flop huge sizing, Donkey Bet Flop huge sizing, Donkey Turn and Check-Raise Turn because...it is complicated...
You said that "Decide to bump it up now to get some money in the pot at this point I am putting him on AK AQ type holdings think higher sets or 2 pair hands could also be there a small amount of the time being slow played. I think draws could also be a possibility".

5) The River, the river...the river...

Pot size: 106.36 BB

Board configuration River: 2c 10h As 8c Qc (Nasty dealer! )

I guess if the Villain in the Button had AK e AQ and decided to call a Check-Raise Turn like that (considerin 25 NLHE as a low stakes games) he would be very, very strange. Mostly Two Pair and Draws are calling in a situation like that and both are good.
If he had a bigger set such as TT, AA, 88, it would be unlikely that he would be Calling your Check-Raise Turn and not shipping all the money in for protection.
I believe you played good but, not so good as it could be, because:
1) Your call in the Flop does not protect your hands from Back Flushes, and Back Door Straights or even a higher Set that could reach the Turn/River
2) When you Check-Raise a weaker Villain like that in position it is unlikely that he is going to leave his draws, because he is watching too much Doug Polk channel and believe he has odds at 25 NLHE (let's forget about the Rake a little...). I don't want to offend anybody but I really believe, my friend, that your Villain in the Button is a weak Regular or a Fish anyhow.

Hero has 74.6 BB left and decides to put a shove, which, personally I don't like it. You will only get called by Flushed and Straights in a situation like that.
Remember, you have started the hand with 100 BB and in the River you still had nearly 75!!! Wait for a better spot, Check the River because if the player has a Straight and sometimes a little sensibility, he/she could also be Checking River because of the Queen of Clubs who got there.

Question:

When you shove the River do you really expect to be paid by worst hands?
When you shove the River and Villain does not have anything to call with and Folds, did you gain value or lost it?


Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Thanks for the review I myself didn't like the river shove afterwards and think a check reavaluate should of been the line taken

 

[Aballinamion]

Hello Ianmacca99 how you doing? Thanks for sharing your hand with us. Very nice hand!
I am player of 2 NLHE and 5 NLHE and play at maximum 10 NLHE but I made a Cash Course to play 100 NLHE, so I adapt my theory and methods a little.

A little analysis


1) The Preflop Action:

Villain is in the Button with a pretty wide range most of times, opening 3x. The Button has 100 BB Effective Stack. The SB calls the 3x Raise with 85 BB Effective stack behind.
Now Hero in the Big Blind has incredible odds to call this raise to setmine, because both players are relatively Deep Stacked. This is an awesome spot for setmining and Hero decides to call which I believe it is good in general, because it is strange to 4bet light such a weaker Pocket Pair Range from the Big Blind (22-66).
So, I believe the call is fine. If anybody has a different opinion about it please I would like to know it.

2) The Flop action:

Pot size: 9 Blinds

Flop: 2c 10h As

SB checks, Hero checks and Villain Button bets 7.48 Big Blinds in a pot of 9 Blinds???? What???? Because it is multiway Pot it is a pretty huge bet, what is that, more than 80% of the Pot in the Flop versus 2 unknown players out of position (you said that you had only a 15 hands sample with this villain, so I deduce he also had the same sample of you).

3) What Villain in the Button might have in a semi-dry Flop to be betting that much?

A)Values: A2s (not a lot of combos because BB has a lot of removal but just for the purpose of the analysis) T2s which decided to open thinking that the Fish player in the SB would call and that's good being in position, ATo, ATs, are easy hands to open from the Button as a default, a few combos of TT and AA,
B) Bluffs: nonetheless, as long as he/she is in the Button it is more common to him/her to show in his/her Range hands as AKo, AQo, AJo, QJo, QJs, KQo, KQs, QTo, QTs, Q9o, Q9s, KJo, KJs, KTo, KTs, JTo, JTs, J9o, J9s and so on because the Button's Range is very wide most of times so it will easily have a lot of these combos, specially when he bets that much.
My conclusion: When Button makes a large bet like that he has more bluffs than values in his range (a thousands missed broadways in a rainbow flop and only TT, and AA, so, theoretically, Hero in the Big Blind would be losing with the Third Nuts in the Flop, which I believe, when Villain/Button bets so gigantically, that he has a gutter, a draw, etc.

Hero decides to call the 7.48 Big Blinds bet to see a Turn, which I believe it is good but it is not so good as Check-Raising for Value here. You said "Decide against a raise as I want to keep his full range in". And that's what I believe it is a bad ideia. Because after this call you might have to see some back doors flushed get there in the river, and that's not good for you. You might have to see some back door Straights and some Straights being completed, which is also not good.
I believe the Check-Raise here in the Flop will be the most profitable play, than calling, after SB folds, because you have only 15 hands played with this Villain and I believe he is a decent player (because he is playing 25 NLHE), ans specially if you certain that he is a Regular you should be bumping, shooting, killing his odds in the Flop.
When you keep his entire Range of semi-bluff with your call you just gave Villain a good price for bluffing plus position to hit his draws, two pairs, sets, whatever, let's not forget that villain also could have 33-99 as Pocket Pairs and his also that could also setmine in the Turn.
IF the Villain in the Button was a Fish I will seriously advocate for Hero in the Big Blind to Check-Raise for a size as much as you wanted, because in a situation like that you will be winning by far over this X hypothetical Fish, something like 70%, 80%, 90% equity versus him/her.
Note: I believe this guy is not a Regular, because of this gigantic C-Bet Flop MultiWay. But, maybe he had his particulars reasons...

4) The Turn

Pot size: 27.96 BB

Board configuration Turn: 2c 10h As 8c

Hero in the Big Blind Checks and the Villain in the Button hold his horses making a smaller C-Bet Turn of 15.6 Big Blinds (a little more than 1/2 pot). Now the Back Doors Clubs got there and some other part of his range such as T8s, 97s, J9s.
Now Hero bump it up and Check-Raises to 39.2 BB and Button CALLS! OMG this is so amazing that I almost cannot believe.
I believe many lines would have worked against this Villain such as Check-Raise Flop huge sizing, Donkey Bet Flop huge sizing, Donkey Turn and Check-Raise Turn because...it is complicated...
You said that "Decide to bump it up now to get some money in the pot at this point I am putting him on AK AQ type holdings think higher sets or 2 pair hands could also be there a small amount of the time being slow played. I think draws could also be a possibility".

5) The River, the river...the river...

Pot size: 106.36 BB

Board configuration River: 2c 10h As 8c Qc (Nasty dealer! )

I guess if the Villain in the Button had AK e AQ and decided to call a Check-Raise Turn like that (considerin 25 NLHE as a low stakes games) he would be very, very strange. Mostly Two Pair and Draws are calling in a situation like that and both are good.
If he had a bigger set such as TT, AA, 88, it would be unlikely that he would be Calling your Check-Raise Turn and not shipping all the money in for protection.
I believe you played good but, not so good as it could be, because:
1) Your call in the Flop does not protect your hands from Back Flushes, and Back Door Straights or even a higher Set that could reach the Turn/River
2) When you Check-Raise a weaker Villain like that in position it is unlikely that he is going to leave his draws, because he is watching too much Doug Polk channel and believe he has odds at 25 NLHE (let's forget about the Rake a little...). I don't want to offend anybody but I really believe, my friend, that your Villain in the Button is a weak Regular or a Fish anyhow.

Hero has 74.6 BB left and decides to put a shove, which, personally I don't like it. You will only get called by Flushed and Straights in a situation like that.
Remember, you have started the hand with 100 BB and in the River you still had nearly 75!!! Wait for a better spot, Check the River because if the player has a Straight and sometimes a little sensibility, he/she could also be Checking River because of the Queen of Clubs who got there.

Question:

When you shove the River do you really expect to be paid by worst hands?
When you shove the River and Villain does not have anything to call with and Folds, did you gain value or lost it?


Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Sorry, but after some time it is impossible to edit the mistakes and see there are quite a bit.
You had more than 100 BB when you started the hand, but I still believe that you simply could have saved a lot of chips/blinds in Rivers like that, and it sucks, but let's look for a spot more profitable, which will certainly come.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[0815am]

I wouldn’t jam that river. What worse hands do you expect to call you. Especially after the draw hit.

I leant towards XF depending on betaute.