$25 NLHE 6-max: cooler or bad play?

[Haze of Spade]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/24/6

usually i would say this is a cooler but i just started taking shots at 25nl so i'm really curious what u think about that hand..
V seems to be a reg, about 80 hands, i think it doesn't change anything if i post the results, just wondering if my thought process is right.. and i really didn't expect such a call from a reg??


PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 103.96 BB
SB: 137.84 BB
Hero (BB): 102 BB
UTG: 327.88 BB
MP: 105.96 BB
CO: 103.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q♥ A♥

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.48 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, BTN calls 7.52 BB

Flop: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 2♦ 3♥ 6♣
Hero bets 6.44 BB, BTN calls 6.44 BB

Turn: (33.28 BB, 2 players) J♥
Hero bets 21 BB, BTN calls 21 BB

River: (75.28 BB, 2 players) 8♠
Hero bets 64.56 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 64.56 BB

Hero shows Q♥ A♥ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 66%, Flop 64%, Turn 80%)
BTN shows 8♥ 5♥ (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 34%, Flop 36%, Turn 20%)
BTN wins 196.4 BB

 

[gustav197poker]

I'm not surprised by this villain bluff catcher. His range is probably too unbalanced in the long term for NL25. But the reality is that our flop bet doesn't represent a strong enough hand to justify fold equity on the turn. On the contrary, your line was heavily weighted towards the flush draw + top pairs combos. On the villain's side, his range is made up of overpairs and specifically, the villain was able to block flush draw on the river. So the call with second pair is an acceptable move, considering his wide opening range.
Greetings.

 

[champ_mc99]

I'm not surprised by this villain bluff catcher. His range is probably too unbalanced in the long term for NL25. But the reality is that our flop bet doesn't represent a strong enough hand to justify fold equity on the turn. On the contrary, your line was heavily weighted towards the flush draw + top pairs combos. On the villain's side, his range is made up of overpairs and specifically, the villain was able to block flush draw on the river. So the call with second pair is an acceptable move, considering his wide opening range.
Greetings.

If he blocks flush draws, doesn't that mean hero has more value hands?

 

[champ_mc99]

And yeah I guess the 3-bet preflop and and small C-bet narrows it down to something like AK. So I'm not sure what you're trying to rep with the river bluff since you no longer have AA/KK in your range. AJ maybe.

 

[fundiver199]

A cooler is, when a very strong hand run into an even better one. In this hand your bluff got called, which is something completely different. The real question is "was this a good bluff". And I dont know to be honest. If you want to be balanced, you need to have some tripple barrel bluffs of course, and maybe this hand was an ok candidate, because you picked up a backdoor draw. However if he is calling down with second pair in a 3-bet pot, this is not really the kind of player, you want to be bluffing. So at least take a note about this and adjust in the future.

 

[fundiver199]

So I'm not sure what you're trying to rep with the river bluff since you no longer have AA/KK in your range.

Why not? Seem like a pretty standard line, which Hero would also take with all his overpairs.

 

[champ_mc99]

Why not? Seem like a pretty standard line, which Hero would also take with all his overpairs.

Would over-pairs bet so small on the flop? Doesn't button hit the flop well enough with his wide range (and his own overpairs)?

 

[gustav197poker]

If he blocks flush draws, doesn't that mean hero has more value hands?

The low board favors the villain's wide opening range. Although hero wants to represent overpairs in his rank, he cannot block any relevant value. Even KK can be assigned to rank V, in addition to low-scale sets that only need to call often enough to get the most long-term benefit.

 

[Haze of Spade]

Would over-pairs bet so small on the flop? Doesn't button hit the flop well enough with his wide range (and his own overpairs)?

Actually i bet so small because i asume i still have a big advantage on that flop and its pretty dry. Sure i cant rep a set or 2 pair but its hard for V to have that too since the cards are sooo low.

 

[Haze of Spade]

A cooler is, when a very strong hand run into an even better one.

Oh i thought a cooler is when i lose and cant do anything about it no matter the hand strenght.

I think this combo was good to bluff with because i block tptk. Guess i wont do it with every missed flush draw.

 

[Tomacco]

Thanks for all the replys.. I'm learning reading you..


I think you had bad luck.

However, sometimes I wonder if he is worth risking everything for such a small prize.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

I think the flop cbet is what is the part that I like least about this hand. I would definitely have bet more (closer to 2/3-3/4).

 

[Haze of Spade]

I think the flop cbet is what is the part that I like least about this hand. I would definitely have bet more (closer to 2/3-3/4).

So what is the reason to bet big here? I dont know whats the optimal bet size to be honest but from my experience its a very profitable move to range-bet opp as the aggressor on such a dry board because i wont get raised that often. Ip i might play another strategy..
Im not talking about a 458 flop but 236 really doesnt hit his range hard and i have all the overpairs in my range.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

This guy was a huge station this hand. Flatting a large 3 bet with 85hh is pretty sick. Flatting the flop with air is what we want when we size down here with a range advantage so I'm fine with that. I may have gone 7-8BB but like the ball park here. Double barreling is fine with the heart draw and overs. If we take the double barrel line then I think jamming less than a pot sized bet is fine here. Alternatively we can x/c turn and x/f river depending on reads. 80 hands is a tiny sample but there should be some clues that this guy is a station if we have stats. And if that's the case then bluffing river seems bad and we should just x/f.

 

[Aballinamion]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/24/6

usually i would say this is a cooler but i just started taking shots at 25nl so i'm really curious what u think about that hand..
V seems to be a reg, about 80 hands, i think it doesn't change anything if i post the results, just wondering if my thought process is right.. and i really didn't expect such a call from a reg??


PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 103.96 BB
SB: 137.84 BB
Hero (BB): 102 BB
UTG: 327.88 BB
MP: 105.96 BB
CO: 103.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q♥ A♥

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.48 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, BTN calls 7.52 BB

Flop: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 2♦ 3♥ 6♣
Hero bets 6.44 BB, BTN calls 6.44 BB

Turn: (33.28 BB, 2 players) J♥
Hero bets 21 BB, BTN calls 21 BB

River: (75.28 BB, 2 players) 8♠
Hero bets 64.56 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 64.56 BB

Hero shows Q♥ A♥ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 66%, Flop 64%, Turn 80%)
BTN shows 8♥ 5♥ (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 34%, Flop 36%, Turn 20%)
BTN wins 196.4 BB

You can never protect your calling range from the Big Blind versus Button steal, if you simply 3-bet 100% of times AT+ and whatever 88+.
Sometimes we should be calling versus Button and SB with such a strong holding like ATs, AJs, AQs and even AKs.
I dare to say that depending on the opponent we should be calling BB x BTN steal even with JJ+.
We must mix the way we play, that means that we are going to play the same hand in different ways and different hands in the same manner.
By the way, this was not never a cooler. You decided to overplay your AQs OTT, when it opens a nut flush draw. Your equity for c-betting the flop was horrible, considering you were out of position.
Besides, you demonstrate that you have no real information of Villain, because if he/she is weak enough to be calling river shove with such weak holdings, you should never try to bluff a player like this. My point is if you tried to bluff this whale, it is because you had no ideia this opponent would dare to call so light OTR, when it should be folding already preflop (if Villain had information that you 3-bet BB is most polarized for value)

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[Haze of Spade]

You can never protect your calling range from the Big Blind versus Button steal, if you simply 3-bet 100% of times AT+ and whatever 88+.
Sometimes we should be calling versus Button and SB with such a strong holding like ATs, AJs, AQs and even AKs.
I dare to say that depending on the opponent we should be calling BB x BTN steal even with JJ+.
We must mix the way we play, that means that we are going to play the same hand in different ways and different hands in the same manner.
By the way, this was not never a cooler. You decided to overplay your AQs OTT, when it opens a nut flush draw. Your equity for c-betting the flop was horrible, considering you were out of position.
Besides, you demonstrate that you have no real information of Villain, because if he/she is weak enough to be calling river shove with such weak holdings, you should never try to bluff a player like this. My point is if you tried to bluff this whale, it is because you had no ideia this opponent would dare to call so light OTR, when it should be folding already preflop (if Villain had information that you 3-bet BB is most polarized for value)

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

So as standard i 3bet AQ BB vs BU but i actually do some low Frequency flats..
But only if V is a nit or ballanced..
So most time i just 3bet and be happy if i pick up the pot. I see that so often that people flat these hands oop and get crushed.
I think u really need a good reason to do this!
Dont really know whats the problem with cbetting this combo.. It is perfect i think.
And i didnt have any reads on that V. I thought its a normal reg, of course i wouldnt bluff him if i knew he calls with that...

 

[Mercurius]

Ultimately I have no idea how he makes that call, so sucks from that side.

That said, I have no idea why you’d choose to risk a stack with air (but maybe I’m not playing / thinking at a high enough level?).

To my mind, bluffing a missed flush draw is where you hold the Ah and there are 3 hearts on the board (ie you can actually rep a flush....).

Your line definitely looks like a set and so optically it is telling the right story, but ignoring the fact this guys a total station - what is calling the flop, turn and river that doesn’t have you beat? What is calling the flop and turn but then folding your river bet that doesn’t fold to a bet half that size?

I get that shoving is trying to sell the bluff but to be honest the shove looks more like a bluff than 1/2 pot bet would as the shove makes it very hard to call, which isn’t what you’d want to do with a set on a pretty dry board. Are you shoving your AJ/KJ/QJ here? I doubt it which probably is where villain found the insanity to call.

 

[pandapower99]

I don't like 3 barreling on this board. We should be checking the flop alot. The villain has more Js in range than we do so not really a good card to bet and the 8 misses us completely. Villain called flop with gutshot, then picked up a flush draw and a pair on the end. Your only repping overpairs, the only set you possibly have is Js, that's it. You have a tonne of bluffs in your range. I like villains call,

 

[Rajten]

Hello, what do you think about check-rasing turn (mayby not against this particular opponent, but generally) Ofc sometimes he has sets and jx (still we have equity) but mostly he has some pocket pairs 77-TT and draws. Do we have enough fold equity?