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NL Holdem 0.25(BB)
BTN ($27.88) [VPIP: 28.2% | PFR: 21.7% | AGG: 30.2% | Flop Agg: 34.7% | Turn Agg: 31% | River Agg: 20.8% | 3-Bet: 9.6% | Fold to 3-Bet: 30% | 4-Bet: 11.1% | Hands: 507]
SB ($21.52) [VPIP: 19.4% | PFR: 2.8% | AGG: 18.2% | Flop Agg: 28.6% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 0% | 3-Bet: 8.3% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 17.6% | Hands: 36]
BB ($33.13) [VPIP: 30.7% | PFR: 19.3% | AGG: 28.8% | Hands: 140]
HERO ($26.04) [VPIP: 25.9% | PFR: 21.2% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 42.4% | Turn Agg: 28.1% | River Agg: 19.2% | 3-Bet: 5.8% | 4-Bet: 9.7% | Hands: 41478]
HJ ($32.82) [VPIP: 27.7% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 36.1% | Hands: 98]
CO ($24.50) [VPIP: 24.4% | PFR: 14.1% | AGG: 27.8% | Hands: 80]

Dealt to Hero:

HERO Raises To $0.95, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $2.85, SB Calls $2.75, BB Folds, HERO Calls $1.90

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.1 effective]
Flop ($8.90): Q♠ 7♥ 4♦
SB Checks, HERO Checks, BTN Checks

Turn ($8.90): Q♠ 7♥ 4♦ 3♦
SB Checks, HERO Checks, BTN Bets $3.20 (Rem. Stack: $21.83), SB Folds, HERO Calls $3.20 (Rem. Stack: $19.99)

River ($15.30): Q♠ 7♥ 4♦ 3♦ 4♠
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $21.83 (allin), HERO Calls $19.99 (allin)

I have a decent amount of hands on villain and his 3bet is a little out of hand. Just to note, the .95 bet pre is because HJ posted a small blind.

Preflop Ranges:

BTN:
[TT+,ATs+,A5s-A2s,KJs+,QJs,JTs+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,AQo+,KQo]

SB:
This guy is pretty weak so I gave him a bunch of pairs, suited aces, random broadways
[TT-22, AQs-A9s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo]

HERO:
3bet call range in this spot [55-TT, T9s,98s,87s,KQs,AJs-AQs]. I realize this might be kind of loose but I feel like the broadways and pairs have decent equity against BTN and SB and the suited connectors might play alright multiway.

When BTN checks the flop, I feel like he could be slow playing QQ since the board is so dry and checking back his trash/marginal hands. I feel like he'd still bet KK+, AQ, maybe some of his hands that can't really improve like K9/KT/AT etc. So when we go into the turn, I feel like he has [QQ-TT, AKs, AJs-ATs, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QJs, JTs+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AKo, KQo]

Turn Ranges:

BTN:
[QQ-TT,A5s-A2s,KQs,QJs,76s,AdJd,KdJd,AdTd,JdTd,Td9d,9d8d,8d7d ,KQo]

HERO Call Range:
[TT-88, 66-55, KQs, AdJd, 8d7d]

I think villain might bet his more marginal pairs in hopes of getting one of us to call with a FD or an even more marginal pair and he probably will bet his own FDs/SDs. Since SB is gone, I'm going to call here with my higher pairs to bluff catch and also call with my FDs/SDs. KQs could be good here so maybe I should be betting it here instead of c/c.

River Ranges

BTN:
[QQ,A4s,AdJd,KdJd,AdTd,JdTd,Td9d,9d8d,8d7d,Ad5d,Ad2 d]

Hero Call Range: ???

Villain makes a huge overbet shove putting me in a bind. All of my draws bricked so now I'm just down to my marginal pairs. Against the range I gave him, I have about 60% equity if I call with TT-88,KQs which is just about right. However, I'm not sure if the range I put him on is even correct and I'd like to get everyone's thoughts.

Shoving A4 and QQ doesn't really make sense given how weak I've been playing but maybe he thinks I could call with worse given how bluffy it looks. If it is a bluff, it seems pretty good since a lot of pairs in my range will likely fold along with my A high draws.

I will bet OTT. If I decide to check-call, no way to fold any pair vs this bet OTR. No matter strong or weak bluff catcher imo. Vs polarized range.
Btw you have pretty weird range preflop. Why to fold with any hand? With this info I will call 100% preflop vs this size and a caller.

I realize this might be kind of loose

This is not "kind of loose", this is "kind of very tight". Ok, AJo maybe is a borderline call. ATo is a fold, but I think I will open fold with ATo. U use JJ for 4bet. Brave heart .
Hero calls and the villain shows AdKd...

This question depends a lot on your opening range. It seems that you are a competent player, so you could open several suitable combos: Axs; Kxs and even some Qxs. The hand was played 100% defensively, so we got some advantage on the turn, allowing us to carry all of Villain's bluffs on the river.
As for QQ, I find it a bit unlikely at V range as we have some queens as well, which balances out the ranges post flop a bit. As for A4, he is arguably more likely in range V, as it required a extraction of value on the turn and finally a bluff push on the river makes sense, as it would get balanced calls for minor trips.
The villain could also have KK and AA, although at a lower frequency. Regarding the pots, it is a bit strange that at this level it was played like this on the post flop, but the possibility exists as well.
In relation to your range of OTR calls, I put you on one line: AQs-KQs-Q7s. While the V range should also contain some draws that did not prosper on the river. As ex: FD combos with Adxd and Kdxd.
Greetings.

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

This is not "kind of loose", this is "kind of very tight". Ok, AJo maybe is a borderline call. ATo is a fold, but I think I will open fold with ATo. U use JJ for 4bet. Brave heart .
Hero calls and the villain shows AdKd...

I mean, my opening range UTG is [55+, A2s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 89s, 87s, 76s,65s,ATo+, KJo+]. Calling this entire range puts me at about 28% equity against the ranges I gave BTN and SB which is just barely above the pot odds I'm given so you're not wrong but I think I'd rather tighten it up a bit and get rid of the KJo and weaker suited kings/aces, KJo/ATo+ etc. JJ is a toss up for me and I can go either way with calling/4betting

Why you thinking about the all range!? What is the meaning of this? This is NL25...If your make a decisions for all your range, with the bottom range you will lose money. Don't do that, friendly advice. But yes, your range is wide. Your range is very close to my max range, but K9s is the max for me. But I will not use at this table this range. And ofc if I use this range, I will fold even in this situation, some of the hands are not good enough.
But still...Some hands...QJs, KJs, Axs, 76s, 65s. They are good enough imo. And ofc 76s, 65s have low equity. I think this is just wrong. Your way...But this is just my opinion, no offense....Yes, KJo is a garbage. K9s as well.

Still we are talking about small profit. No such hand, which is not good for 4bet and which is "very profitable call". Small profit...A blind...

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

Why you thinking about the all range!? What is the meaning of this? This is NL25...If your make a decisions for all your range, with the bottom range you will lose money.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Your first comment said you call 100% against the 3bet which I assume means youre calling everything in your raise range. I was saying that's ok I guess given the pot odds but personally I would tighten up my call range...

Calling this entire range puts me at about 28% equity against the ranges I gave BTN and SB

We are talking different languages.

I mean, my opening range UTG is [55+, A2s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 89s, 87s, 76s,65s,ATo+, KJo+]

3bet call range in this spot [55-TT, T9s,98s,87s,KQs,AJs-AQs]

I assume you use for 4bet JJ+, AK. I lot of hands are "missing". AQo, QTs, QJs, KTs, KJs, 76s, 65s, ATs....What is this 28% equity!? Do you mean pot odds? Still $1.90 from $8.90 is not 28%. Can you explain? What is this 28% equity and why this range for call?

I said I will call 100% against the 3bet. And I mean because my range is tight, the 3betor is a bit loose and there is a fish in the pot. My range for open raise will be tight, because of the given info. But you use wide range here. I understand you will fold some of the hands. But why this range for call "55-TT, T9s,98s,87s,KQs,AJs-AQs". What is this 28% equity?

Calling this entire range puts me at about 28% equity against the ranges I gave BTN and SB which is just barely above the pot odds

Are yout talking about calling the entire range vs BTN range + SB range? Ok, I understand now. But no sense to think like that. And for the call OTR. "What is my range here?". Again no sense. Must be "What is the weakest hand which I call here?" I mean do not talk about "range vs range". Only for your weakest hands (the bottom) vs his range.

The bottom range from tight UTG range will be good enough for call vs this 3bet. That's why I said "I will call 100%". Sorry for my bad English....

Mate, your thinking is like "1/2 second level of thinking, 1/2 GTO type of thinking". No need to think about your range. Ever...The right way is "What range he have", "Is my hand is good enough vs his range?". And when you make an analyse "Which is the weakest hand from my range here?"
Your thinking is "Do I have enough equity with my range here?". This is wrong imo...Even if you play GTO. If you play GTO, you must think "Vs this size which part of my range I must fold here". Let's say he bet 50%, then you define 1/3 from your range. Or less than 1/3. Depends on your "strategy".

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

I assume you use for 4bet JJ+, AK. I lot of hands are "missing". AQo, QTs, QJs, KTs, KJs, 76s, 65s, ATs....What is this 28% equity!? Do you mean pot odds? Still $1.90 from $8.90 is not 28%. Can you explain? What is this 28% equity and why this range for call?

I said I will call 100% against the 3bet. And I mean because my range is tight, the 3betor is a bit loose and there is a fish in the pot. My range for open raise will be tight, because of the given info. But you use wide range here. I understand you will fold some of the hands. But why this range for call "55-TT, T9s,98s,87s,KQs,AJs-AQs". What is this 28% equity?

if you've ever used pokerstove or equilab, I'm saying that if you put my entire UTG opening range vs range I gave BTN and the range I gave SB, then I have 28% equity but maybe you're right, it's probably the wrong way to think about it.

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

Are yout talking about calling the entire range vs BTN range + SB range? Ok, I understand now. But no sense to think like that. And for the call OTR. "What is my range here?". Again no sense. Must be "What is the weakest hand which I call here?" I mean do not talk about "range vs range". Only for your weakest hands (the bottom) vs his range.

Ok, I guess that's what I meant.

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

Mate, your thinking is like "1/2 second level of thinking, 1/2 GTO type of thinking". No need to think about your range. Ever...The right way is "What range he have", "Is my hand is good enough vs his range?". And when you make an analyse "Which is the weakest hand from my range here?"
Your thinking is "Do I have enough equity with my range here?". This is wrong imo...Even if you play GTO. If you play GTO, you must think "Vs this size which part of my range I must fold here". Let's say he bet 50%, then you define 1/3 from your range. Or less than 1/3. Depends on your "strategy".

Oh I see, thanks for the tips!

if you've ever used pokerstove or equilab,

No, I never used that, is that for eating!?

Sorry for "the offence", I just tried to help, but I think is too early for you to realize WTF you are doing. GL..."Hero call range". 2009...Maybe is too late...Folding AQo, ATs and JTs to add "some strenght", "some equity" to your calling range. With what? With 87s...Cool...

Join Date: Jan 2009

Plays at: pokerstars

Game: holdem

Posts: 3,102


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Why I didn't saw this earlier!? GL, mate! Sorry for the "offence"!
I guess some people will never learn...Also, Mr "equilab" ninja, your equity is not 28% with your entire range. And also 28% "in theory" is enough for call in this spot. But who cares about the f*cking equity!? No one...Only you...

I don't understand what you're upset about? You asked me where I was getting the equity thing, I answered your question and even admitted you were right and I was thinking about it wrong. I didn't take any offense to what you said, it was actually helpful to me and I appreciated the advice you gave. Not sure why you're being so hostile...

Also yes, I'm an older member of this community. I started playing in 08 but I had to stop playing in 2011 due to black friday. Back then, a lot of these concepts you see today were not even thought of and the games weren't tough at all. Over the past 9 years I've really only played maybe 3 or 4 times live and just started playing online again 3 months ago. So yeah, it's safe to say I'm trying to learn new things and become a better player. If you want to beat up on my hands because it makes you feel good, I don't really mind if the advice is solid but there's honestly no need to attack me as a person lmao

I didn't explain it before. But when I say that hero calls at most with Q7s, it is because I consider that that hand represents the limit for call / 3bet from UTG (taking into account the type of player, which I think is competent and the stake that is played). And in OTR call, Q7s also represents the last combo on the list but it is better than others, since the upper scales (Q-8s; Q-9s; QTs; QJs) are quite marginal because they are basically blocking a importan part of the villain's bluff range. In this scenario, we want BTN to keep all its middle pockets in his range: 8-8; 9-9; T-T; J-J.
It is also not ideal to block boats on this board with sevens because this isolates us with some combos that defeat us, such as A4 that the villain could perfectly have. We're also reducing V-bluffs like A7 and K7, that eventually the villain could look to fool us in this texture. But at least these negative factors are offset by the unlocking of double pairs, because now villain could have some AQ and QK in your range.
So it is reasonable to think that some combinations like KJo and K9s are annoying at the hero range, because basically what they do is limit the bluff range of the villain.
Regarding 5-6s, I also agree with UkoChebuko that it may not be profitable in the long term for NL25. However again, I think hero is a competent player and could certainly have him on the river.
Personally, the reasons why I would use this combo (5-6s) from UTG (or worse) would be if I want to randomize the sequence in order to balance some parameter that I have in a frequency not desired for me. For example, if my 3-bet call is too low, I will eventually make some such adjustment of this type to improve my appearance.

I don't understand what you're upset about?

I don't know WTF is happened here. I thought this is an irony. I wrote a long posts and at the end only an irony. But whatever, my English is bad, maybe this is the reason., sorry for misunderstanding.

I will write a long post, as apology. This is my opinion. I am not a coach, I don't care about "the image", I am nobody and I just want to help, I like to write about the poker.

First, you range from UTG.
The size...I assume you use 3x. This is the the best size. Can be 2.8x, but not smaller. Can be smaller, but at least at NL50, to early for 2.5x. Two reasons for that.

1.Small FE and narrow 3bet vs UTG at this limit. Ofc this limit is different than NL10, but still this size is the best.

2.This size is more common. The people use this size more often. You need to use "the common moves", if they are not bad for your limit. In this case 3x is not bad, because the reason one. Your HUD will be more "valuable". You info will be more correct. For example, this 3bet form this guy in the hand is more often vs 3x size. If you use 2.5x, his range may be different, the percentage can be different. Ofc you can use "special stats", Note Caddy or custom stats to see his range vs 2.5x. But your Hud will be very complex. And this is not so good. You can use this "space" from the HUD, your time for "reading" for something else.

Your range from UTG:
55+, A2s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 89s, 87s, 76s,65s,ATo+, KJo+

Imo you can't use this range as default. Some of the hands are -EV in a long run. Without info. I mean without any info. You still can see the country , the stack size as well. You know about the tendencies from this field. But the last is not enough, you can't use this info to change the default ranges. As I said , I will use that as max range from UTG. -K8s, +44, +QJo. Also you don't have rakeback in PS, the rake is not small, the cap is not "low".

At this table...You have some info. This is +EV for all your hands. But I assume the average 3bet in this table is not so small. Can be small vs UTG, I don't know. I assume you have more than 50% fold vs 3bet, because of your range in this situation. Even with a caller (fish) you still fold so much hands. You must realize you will become a target for some people. Many people are using HUD, even some of the fishes. At this limit. You can see this with "vs Hero stats", but after some time. For this reasons you can't use such a wide range, the profit with the bottom range is so small, actually -EV without info. And in this situation very easy can become -EV, because the 3bet. This hands are -300bb/100hands vs 3bet (you can't call). I will use 13% range, because the info and because the fish. The fish is at the SB and this is good. If the fish was at CO, this is not very good, because you will face a squeeze often. There is an argument, you can use the bottom range for bluff 4bet to have smaller loses. But this is a "false" argument, because you always will have hands for fold, you always will have some hands for 4bet bluff (better hands for open raise, with more EV).

Your defence vs 3bet...
First, there is not such thing, like "the optimal frequency". From some positions (CO, UTG) as default our fold vs 3bet will be low. Because of the strenght of the range.
Your "type of thinking". You have interest for the pot ods and the equity of your entire range. As I said this is wrong. You bottom range "will take" equity from you top range. Still the bottom range will be -EV call. You must thing about any hand in vacuum. Can you win more than -300/100 (fold). Or -250/100 (CO). And you must think about that before the open raise. Let's say KJo from UTG. This hand is very good, but not vs 3bet. You can't call that. JTs is not so strong, but you can call 3bet with this hand (most likely), also this hand is good vs two and more people, not like KJo. "You must think about that", I mean you just use some other range, more narrow, if there are a 3betors behind you.

The balance...This limit is too low. No need for balance in any spot. Only exploit. You can call 100% in some spots, you can fold 100% in others. No any reasons for balance. You can use narrow range for open raise, even if the wide range for open raise is "defendable", "unexploitable". But the wide range will have less profit with the bottom (-EV). It is more profitable to use exploit and to use narrow range vs aggro playes. Vs different players you can use very wide range and fold vs 3bet with very high frequence. You will be "exploaitable", but this doesn't matter, because "you first are going for exploit". You "must" be exploitable for max profit at this limits.

I mean this is "the second level of thinking", the best one. You think only for your hand, "in vacuum", and you think about his entire range. Is this hand is good vs his entire range...

You hands for defence vs 3bet. You prefer the low suited connectors. This is a mistake. I know why you do that. But in a long run, hand like QJs will be more profitable. Also for your choice matters not only the percentage for 3bet, but also the type of range for 3bet. Polarized or depolarized. Vs depolarized ranges your hands have less EV.

The hand, the topic....
As I said, I prefer bet OTT.
If you choose check-call, then at this river your hands are bluff catchers. You don't have a "strong bluffcatcher". Only a "pure bluff catchers". Vs this size for bet (overbet). That's means your hands have very similar equity vs "second level type of thinking". If this guy plays very bad (first level), then your hands are weaker. He will check back some time with hand, which he must use for bet. Some of the hands will be stronger, because of the blocking effect. They can be blocking his value range (stronger), they can be blocking his bluff range (weaker). You can use some stats from the HUD. For other spots. To see his type of playing. You can use notes from the Note Caddy. even if they are not for this spot. To see the possible bluffs here and the frequency.
But as default I think any pair will be +EV call here. Because his polarized range. Possible polarized range. Very possible...

All this is only my opinion and can be wrong. Sorry for the offence. Sorry for my bad English. GL...

I forgot. Also , if he plays "tricky" (3rd level), then I think you must fold with any hand here. He will have AQ, AA, KK and set very often. Maybe a bluff, but bluff without showdown value (rare). You can see that from the HUD. 507 hands...There are a good charts (Note Caddy). For a "tells"...Some of this charts maybe are banned in PS. You can use something else. A notes with different lines and the range as text. Also for the size and strenght of the hand. It is not so simple, but possible.

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

Your range from UTG:
55+, A2s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 89s, 87s, 76s,65s,ATo+, KJo+

Imo you can't use this range as default. Some of the hands are -EV in a long run. Without info. I mean without any info. You still can see the country , the stack size as well. You know about the tendencies from this field. But the last is not enough, you can't use this info to change the default ranges. As I said , I will use that as max range from UTG. -K8s, +44, +QJo. Also you don't have rakeback in PS, the rake is not small, the cap is not "low".

So in your opening range, you don't include any suited connectors UTG?

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

Your defence vs 3bet...
First, there is not such thing, like "the optimal frequency". From some positions (CO, UTG) as default our fold vs 3bet will be low. Because of the strenght of the range.
Your "type of thinking". You have interest for the pot ods and the equity of your entire range. As I said this is wrong. You bottom range "will take" equity from you top range. Still the bottom range will be -EV call. You must thing about any hand in vacuum. Can you win more than -300/100 (fold). Or -250/100 (CO). And you must think about that before the open raise. Let's say KJo from UTG. This hand is very good, but not vs 3bet. You can't call that. JTs is not so strong, but you can call 3bet with this hand (most likely), also this hand is good vs two and more people, not like KJo. "You must think about that", I mean you just use some other range, more narrow, if there are a 3betors behind you.

Yes, I think I was getting confused. I've been learning from Upswing poker recently and started to get caught up in ranges and thinking more about them. You're right though, I shouldn't be thinking about pot odds for my call range because all that matters is the pot odds for my actual hand in the given situation

Originally Posted by UkoChebuko

You hands for defence vs 3bet. You prefer the low suited connectors. This is a mistake. I know why you do that. But in a long run, hand like QJs will be more profitable. Also for your choice matters not only the percentage for 3bet, but also the type of range for 3bet. Polarized or depolarized. Vs depolarized ranges your hands have less EV.

See to me, calling QJs over something like 76s could be a bit more dangerous especially if I hit TP with a jack or something. I would probably have a harder time letting it go over TP with a 7 but maybe that's just something I have to work on.

If I use my "max" range for UTG open raise, there are low suited connectors. Same as yours, but without K8s and with QJo and 44. Still 14 combos more...To be honest, I often use this range and very rare the "min" range. I have 3 ranges for UTG. For MP and CO 4, for SB and BTN 5 ranges, but the max range for SB/BTN is 100%, easy to remember, lol.

Yes, I think I was getting confused. I've been learning from Upswing poker

I knew it...I mean almost sure. Because of this hand, K8s. I remember a lot of things from there, this is a very popular site. Don't use this ranges, friendy advice. Everything, which is for free in this site, is a crap.

See to me, calling QJs over something like 76s could be a bit more dangerous especially if I hit TP with a jack or something. I would probably have a harder time letting it go over TP with a 7 but maybe that's just something I have to work on.

As I said, I know why you do that. I already know the reason for this type of play. There is a logic, strong one. But, mate, this is an illusion. In reality this just doesn't work. QJs always will be the stronger hand . In a long run. Ofc we are talking about small difference. Blind, part of the blind most likely. But vs wide ranges (or polarized) the difference is not so small. In theory vs some ranges, 87s will be better. But in reality vs this type of player you will fold with QJs and with 87s. Some nit...

Mate, you need to see some sample. If you have friends, "poker-friends". Or you can buy one. I assume you don't have a big sample. Yes, it is more difficult to play hand, like KJs or A5s, than 87s. But this is up to you. As I like to say, you can understand how good is one player, if you see how he play with "small" suited Aces. Only from that. Or how he play with AJo. It is not easy, mate. How many players survived!? I would say 0,1%.

Look at him. I can't understand sh*t. And his English is perfect. I think it is better to not understand. +EV...

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