$25 NLHE 6-max: $25NL. Should we ever go for 3 streets against calling station?

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Rotanes88

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I feel that I overplayed this hand even though this table was playing loose. I did notice that villain was calling down a few spots with top pair on flop even when the board got worse for villain.

What should we be doing in these spots?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG (Hero): $46.64 (187 bb)
MP: $126.25 (505 bb)
CO: $37.77 (151 bb)
BU: $25.00 (100 bb)
SB: $25.54 (102 bb)
BB: $36.91 (148 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with J Q
Hero raises to $0.75, 3 players fold, SB calls $0.65, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.75) 5 7 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.08, SB calls $1.08

Turn: ($3.91) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.11, SB calls $2.11

River: ($8.13) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.13, SB calls $4.13

Total pot: $16.39 (Rake: $0.74)

Showdown:
UTG (Hero) shows J Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 64%, Flop: 1%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

SB shows 4 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 36%, Flop: 99%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

SB wins $15.65
 
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mktpppr

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P: borderline open, but ok-ish.

F: check back. Horrible flop, especially vs calling station.

T: as played, check back. Villain as described is never folding his flush draws on flop.

R: as played, check back. We must exploit our position.

We exploit calling stations by waiting for strong hands and then betting for value aggressively.

Slow down and give up: losing less than everybody else is a win.

Please don't post results.
 
Last edited:
Shumkoolie

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Your open was fine, you do have position on villain here. Your lead on the flop is marginal, it will take the pot down some of the time, but the problem you face against a loose player is that they're going to defend pretty much their entire range, except for absolute junk hands (like 92o for instance). So you don't really have range advantage on this specific flop.

Their check-raise here says I got a piece of that flop. Given what you've said about your opponent, they're going to have a lot of 5x in their range, and maybe even flush draws. An A5 defend from the BB is VERY reasonable, and maybe even Q5/K5, so those are hands that have to be accounted for. I'm not worried here about 77 or even 55 as they'd just call those hands if they know you are going to play aggressively.

The turn card is interesting because it does bring flushes into the picture, and you are certainly going to have those a good portion of the time, so villain here is, if they are a station, going to check-call you down, so firing here is not an awful play, but because they did that, REALLY the only card that's going to help you here is another club on the river. However, you also may need to be concerned that they may have a flush draw as well given how wide they presumably play based on what you said. But that's putting yourself into a much higher variance spot. I'm probably checking the turn here myself.

I get why you're betting out on the river because you're really ONLY losing to 5x, which is a narrow part of villain's range. Your aggression probably buys you a lot of pots in the games you play, but it's definitely a higher variance path to take and you will get burned at times too, like here. In a vacuum, I don't think you played it too badly though because it will work some of the time. It just happened that it didn't this time.
 
Last edited:
gambit1983

gambit1983

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Yeah no need to bet river, you are last to act. He’s obviously calling you down with something and some of the draws got there
 
puzzlefish

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I feel that I overplayed this hand even though this table was playing loose. I did notice that villain was calling down a few spots with top pair on flop even when the board got worse for villain.

What should we be doing in these spots?

Should we ever go for 3 streets against calling station?

First of all, the answer to the question in the title is "yes, but only if you have a better hand than them"

This is one of those classic hands where you are doing the value betting for your opponent.

The 3BB raise pre-flop is just not big enough to give you any idea of what this guy might have and, once you go to this particular flop, it's not a good texture for your hand. You just have to accept that when you see it and slow it down.

As played, you haven't isolated his range well enough pre-flop to make your two pairs viable by the river. I don't even think aces or kings would stay for all three streets here (maybe a stretch for the ace of clubs?). It just happens that this time he spiked trips, but he can just as easily be drawing for a flush and just letting you bet away.
 
liuouhgkres

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Preflop is standard. I usually open 2.5bb, but 3bb is totally fine too.
When villain calls on SB, he usually has suited Ax, suited broadways, small connecters and small pocket pairs. So, on small paired flops like this you better off betting small, like quarter of a pot to make villain fold A and K high cards. By betting bigger you achieve same thing but for higher price.
As played, on the turn villain comes with 5x, 66-99 and flushes. With pair of Qs you have one street of value at best and you can do that on the river. You should check back this turn.
As played, villain's range are kinda still same, but this time pocket pairs are not going to pay you and villain will mostly with 5x and flushes. Easy check back. Overall, very poorly played postflop.
 
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Rotanes88

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P: borderline open, but ok-ish.

F: check back. Horrible flop, especially vs calling station.

T: as played, check back. Villain as described is never folding his flush draws on flop.

R: as played, check back. We must exploit our position.

We exploit calling stations by waiting for strong hands and then betting for value aggressively.

Slow down and give up: losing less than everybody else is a win.

Please don't post results.

Points taken mate. Is there a way to post hand results with a "click to reveal" button for the end results?
 
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mktpppr

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No need for "Click to reveal": it's best to exclude results completely.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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bet flop
check turn
evaluate river
 
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eetenor

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I feel that I overplayed this hand even though this table was playing loose. I did notice that villain was calling down a few spots with top pair on flop even when the board got worse for villain.

What should we be doing in these spots?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG (Hero): $46.64 (187 bb)
MP: $126.25 (505 bb)
CO: $37.77 (151 bb)
BU: $25.00 (100 bb)
SB: $25.54 (102 bb)
BB: $36.91 (148 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with J Q
Hero raises to $0.75, 3 players fold, SB calls $0.65, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.75) 5 7 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.08, SB calls $1.08

Turn: ($3.91) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.11, SB calls $2.11

River: ($8.13) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.13, SB calls $4.13

Total pot: $16.39 (Rake: $0.74)

Showdown:
UTG (Hero) shows J Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 64%, Flop: 1%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

SB shows 4 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 36%, Flop: 99%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

SB wins $15.65

Thank you for posting

We always want to think why are we betting and why this size.

On the flop what are our betting goals in order of importance
1 get folds
2 set up turn bluff
3 get value from worse?

So on this flop when we bet we are targeting the weakest part of the V range to get folds. That part of the V range is so weak that 30% pot sizing is the same as 50% pot or more.

The smaller bet size also allows us to use a 2 street bluff strategy as we would also use 30% for value on this flop to keep the V range wide.
The smaller size vs a calling station also allows us to get to river cheaply when we miss or as in this case allows us to pot control vs a really bad turn card which this was.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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