200NL QQ vs small 4bet

blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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so i stopped obsessing over kathy liebert for long enough to actually play some pokers. sorry for another stupid preflop hand, but here it goes anyway

EDIT: plz note this is 6max. i didn't put it in the title cause im an idiot

i'm pretty new to the table but JoeJoe has been raising a bunch and taking the blinds.. he's like 33/33

4bettor is 33/17, probably kind of fishy, 3bet pot-sized once before and it folded, no other 3bets or 4bets. this is all over only like 12 hands or something though. my thoughts were maybe he's got a monster or maybe he thinks i'm just 3betting because i'm fed up with joe

fulltiltpoker Game #4725364229: Table Dewey (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:02:09 ET - 2008/01/03
Seat 1: combuboom ($200)
Seat 2: SanchoHH ($203.30)
Seat 3: dittoman1 ($166)
Seat 4: Cremdela ($419.90)
Seat 5: JoeJoe1721 ($164.25)
Seat 6: theboyfaedundee ($461.25)
SanchoHH posts the small blind of $1
dittoman1 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to combuboom [Qd Qs]
Cremdela folds
JoeJoe1721 raises to $7
theboyfaedundee folds
combuboom raises to $24
SanchoHH folds
dittoman1 has 15 seconds left to act
dittoman1 raises to $48
JoeJoe1721 folds
combuboom has 15 seconds left to act
combuboom...

shove, call, or fold?
 
Last edited:
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Considering stack sizes I can't see us getting away from this even though his tiny 3-bet screams KK+ to me.

What were his 3-betting (or 4-betting) sizes like in the past?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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I'm reliably informed that Kathy Liebert would call in position and go broke on an A/K-less flop.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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The thing with that is that we give up tons of value from JJ- that way, and AQ when it's K-high...
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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kathy liebert isn't very good at poker.
 
Arjonius

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I'd lean toward calling, which lets me see the flop in position with the pot still at a size where I don't feel obligated to put my entire stack in no matter what comes on the flop.
 
vanquish

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i bet kathy liebert would crush you heads up broski
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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i bet kathy liebert would crush you heads up broski

*insert obvious joke here*

umm, let me ramble seeing as I feel bad for derailing this. essentially, we need to figure out if villain is doing this with JJ/TT. If he is, we can shove, if not we fold. If we think JJ is his cutoff then it's close and I don't have PStove at work so I dunno.

Given (albeit limited) reads, if he does seem a bit fishy he's likely not thinking in terms of "combu is probably fed up of the LAGtard so he's reraising with a liberal range so let's 4-bet with AQ", he's probably thinking "ME HAVS GOOT CARDZ". I think I'm just about willing to go broke here, but it's very close.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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kathy liebert isn't very good at poker.

dude according to her bio on kathy liebert dot com she practically invented (female) poker!

i pretty much agree that both calling with position or shoving are reasonable. given the guy is unknown and we don't have a great grasp on his 4betting range, stacking range, or postflop tendencies (crucial to how often we risk getting bluffed off the best hand on an A or K scare card flop when we just call), i'm not yet convinced that one is clearly better than the other

here's a question: what do we do with JJ here?
 
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switch0723

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im folding here on the basis of why would he enter this pot with a 3 bet if he didnt have anything but aces or kings. He hasnt over raised either, hes put in what appears to be a value raise. Although its tough id fold. I dont think calling is a good idea since i imagine villain will lead out big whatever so we would need to hit a set to know where we stood, otherwise we are in a very tricky situation on a low flop which is what we would be hoping for. I think folding here is the best and probably most profitable in the long run
 
ChuckTs

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here's a question: what do we do with JJ here?

Well at that point we're lucky if TT is in his range as it's the only hand we'll have beat aside from AK/AQ which has us on the nice side of flipping. Pretty easy fold I'd say.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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Well at that point we're lucky if TT is in his range as it's the only hand we'll have beat aside from AK/AQ which has us on the nice side of flipping. Pretty easy fold I'd say.

i agree, just making sure we're on the same page. the reason i asked...

i shove all-in and he INSTACALLS with Ts. he kathy lieberts me on the flop by hitting a set, i turn a qween
 
ChuckTs

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fwiw I've seen people make really strong-looking min 3-bets with some very subpar hands. Similar TT hands at 50nl, even down to 8s in my experience. I was scoping out the 100nl tables last night and saw a guy do it with QTs.

Not that it's something to assume is happening every time a lagtard min3-bets obv, but just some food for thought.
 
jaketrevvor

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Well, it's an encouraging thought that when I finally make it up to 200nl theres still some lovely fishy play awaiting me. :)
 
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jeffred1111

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I would probably call since we are in position, but shoving is fine too, if he is willing to call with TT-JJ, AQs+.
 
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