200NL one bizarre-ass hand vs unknown

blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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the limp and then nearly minimum reraise preflop really threw me off and froze me up. guy had only been at the table for a small number of hands, no significant numbers on him, but suffice it to say he hadn't done anything like this before

i mean, wtf. i don't know. anyone raising one of his dinky bets somewhere? how else should i play it? p.s. wtf?

fulltiltpoker Game #4416284442: Table Escondido (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:55:51 ET - 2007/12/06
Seat 1: daCatzMeow ($200)
Seat 2: dorsey55 ($98.20)
Seat 3: BobSings ($203.80)
Seat 4: rvrmonkey ($190)
Seat 5: hit_the_nuts ($290.75)
Seat 6: combuboom ($379.95)
hit_the_nuts posts the small blind of $1
combuboom posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to combuboom [Ac Ks]
daCatzMeow folds
dorsey55 calls $2
BobSings folds
rvrmonkey folds
hit_the_nuts folds
combuboom raises to $9
dorsey55 raises to $16
combuboom calls $7
*** FLOP *** [9s 5c Js]
combuboom checks
dorsey55 bets $2
combuboom calls $2
*** TURN *** [9s 5c Js] [6c]
combuboom checks
dorsey55 has 15 seconds left to act
dorsey55 checks
*** RIVER *** [9s 5c Js 6c] [7s]
combuboom checks
dorsey55 bets $2
combuboom calls $2 :confused:
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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He's so short stacked, why not re-raise him all in PF?
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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well it's 1/2 a stack, not too incredibly shortstacked. i mean 50 BBs. i definitely considered it, but against a guy who's limp minreraising for the first time, i can't imagine it's +EV to put another $90 in to get his $16 bet (and obv the rest of the pot too). i'm virtually never getting called by worse, and when he has what he's representing i'm badly screwed. and i can't really raise less without committing myself. he's giving me fine odds to see a flop and i can call without telegraphing my hand. out of position, which i don't love, but i think it's better than the alternative
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Calling puts you in that horrible situation though. Either fold or move in.
 
Cheetah

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I don't think this was a bad play.

Preflop, re-re-raising with AK is dangerous. You usually get called with big pairs.

Villain's min-bets in position are atroucious, but we got to see all 5 cards for a very small prize --- not a bad thing for a drawing hand like AK.

Besides, the board was scary enough. bluffing OOP on this board is not a great idea, IMO.

If he had a hand and min-bet it in position, then he got no value for it.

If he didn't have a hand, he showed he is a donk by min-betting in position which exposes him to check-raises.

Either way, not much is lost or gained $-wise, but the board wasn't good to us anyway.
 
tosborn

tosborn

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I don't mind this at all. I agree with your analysis WTF.

My thoughts are that we don't want to make a mistake by betting into a bigger hand. I just don't understand the mini raises and if he's going to let us get to showdown this cheap then we might as well take him up on it. The preflop mini raise does scream "Please, somebody repop this so that I can get my entire stack in the middle!"

But, then the mini bets on flop and river are just WTF. We can't bet here because we have no idea where we are and only a hand that beats us calls a bet. I don't like spewing money to find out we have been slow played in this situation.

If anything it was worth calling this down to find out WTF he takes this line with.

Could be a shortstack that was trying to induce a minibet/reraise/3-bet?
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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Calling puts you in that horrible situation though. Either fold or move in.

i'm getting 4:1 to see a flop with AK. i'm not folding. i have better immediate odds than that to hit the flop, disregarding implied odds completely. and if he has AA or KK and an A or K unluckily hits, i was going broke if i shoved PF anyway. what's so horrible about it? and he's not calling a shove with worse. therefore... i disagree
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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If he has a small-medium pair, you can push him off it when you're a slight underdog. Take advantage of potential fold equity and at least 4 bet. I just don't like the passive play... not my style. The way you played it is fine if you're 80 and play from your nursing home computer. The hand is just disgusting to me from the standpoint of being an action PLO junkie. I'm sure you're a much better NLHE player than I am afaik, but these are just my opinions fwiw imo.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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he limped first in UTG+1. then i raised from the blind (OOP obv fwiw imo). then he reraised me less than twice my bet. if he's retarded enough to do that with a small-medium pair i want to play a pot with him getting 4:1 with AK.

the funny thing is if i shove and he snapcalls and shows AA everybody says "well the limp minreraise might've tipped you off, i would've played it slower"

if i 4bet, i fold out everything i might beat and want to play a pot with. i get action from a range that crushes me. the main pro, as you said, is that i can potentially fold out small medium pairs that are slightly ahead of me. but again, if he's goofy enough to make that play with that hand, there's a decent chance he'll spew postflop when i hit anyway and i'd probably like to play with him

i was hoping for more ideas on his range postflop and when/if i could try to raise him at some point. preflop is standard and i don't think shoving sucks either, but i think it's worse given my experience vs. this type of line at 200NL (AA/KK about 50% of the time). preflop = boring and standard, moving on..
 
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tenbob

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I think you played it fine. Looks to me like a limit player having a stab at a no limit game. Raising is out of the question, youll likely find yourself min-reraised and forced to call.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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So what were the results? I'm curious to know wtf this goofball was doing.
 
Cheetah

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i was hoping for more ideas on his range postflop and when/if i could try to raise him at some point.

I don't see how you could have re-raised him. There is nothing going in your favor in this hand:
  1. You don't know how this player plays and what his min-raises mean. Some min-raise instead of checking. Others min-raise with monsters.
  2. You are OOP
  3. The board is scary
  4. You have nothing
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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Calling puts you in that horrible situation though. Either fold or move in.

Obv not gonna fold as we are getting 4:1, Obv not going to push against a limp/min. rr as of course 80%+ of the time we'll see As here or Ks if we're lucky - I mean there's a reason he's giving us 4:1 :)

Shame there are no reads, but with crazy ass redonkulous min. bets there are 3 types of ppl I think:

1) Those who have AA/KK, think its unbeatable and are really scared of losing you
2) Those who have AK as a cop-out c-bet - not wanting to invest too much but wanting the outside chance of picking up the big pot, figuring you will fold more than 2/35 of the time and there is really no risk for him
3) Those with pps lower than the highest card on board, scared but figuring they have to bet for some reason (wierd mentality)

Anyhooo I cast my vote for either a split pot or him to show you 22 :D
 
WVHillbilly

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Pocket 10s I'd say. Although, I really don't care what he's got. I'm just calling the $2 on the end to find out. Very strange betting sequence.
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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Pocket 10s I'd say.

This is what I thought originally looking at post-flop weirdness but would he really make this move pf with only Ts?

Anyway combu plz post what he had - I'm dying here!!:saint:
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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he showed KQo (wtf?) and i take the pot
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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he showed KQo (wtf?) and i take the pot

Umm.. ok..wtf indeed

I just searched dorsey55 on FT and he's singletabling 10NL - looks like you caught him at just the right time :D (you lucky bastard:()
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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yeah, it turned out he was donktastic and he donated another $50 or so to me afterwards. of course i didn't want to mention that in the OP because at the time of the hand i had no knowledge of that. that's why i hate going in readless
 
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