200NL 6max omg its QQ every time (postflop)

[blankoblanco]

this hand kinda blew my mind and i wasn't sure of the ideal line to take PF or on flop. i didn't feel comfortable 4betting preflop because kid had been about as nitty as kathy liebert thus far at 22/9, and i just felt like he was folding worse if i 4bet. he had 3bet in position a couple times before, though (didn't showdown). and with ron's extra money in there maybe a case can be made

the reason i just went ahead and posted my line is cause once i just called ron on the flop, i already had it planned to get it in this way if kid raised. the question is if the whole plan sucks. maybe i should raise flop? but do i then commit myself while scaring away everything i beat (namely TT-JJ?) blah blah blah, here

full tilt poker Game #4747701330: Table Lamb (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:31:53 ET - 2008/01/05
Seat 1: combuboom ($206.25)
Seat 2: kidwhowon ($188)
Seat 3: Coox ($266.85)
Seat 4: Ron_Leipzig ($106.70)
Seat 5: NoFear13x ($39)
Seat 6: ptownballer ($200), is sitting out
Coox posts the small blind of $1
Ron_Leipzig has 5 seconds left to act
Ron_Leipzig posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to combuboom [Qs Qh]
NoFear13x folds
combuboom raises to $7
kidwhowon raises to $22
Coox folds
Ron_Leipzig calls $20
combuboom calls $15
*** FLOP *** [2d 8h 8d]
Ron_Leipzig has 15 seconds left to act
Ron_Leipzig bets $30
combuboom calls $30
kidwhowon raises to $100
Ron_Leipzig has 15 seconds left to act
Ron_Leipzig has requested TIME
Ron_Leipzig folds
combuboom raises to $164.25, and is all in
kidwhowon calls $66, and is all in

 

[WhatItDew]

When he reraised you initially, that would have set off some red flags in my mind. He could be holding a low PP trying to buy the pot on the spot, or he could be holding AA or KK and have you dominated. I'm guessing he's holding something like 22, and hit trips on the flop. He could be holding 88, but that is far less likely. I don't see any way that he could call your all in with AA or KK with 2 8's on the board.

 

[Munchrs]

i think you played it well, if you run into him 3 betting something like 89s or AA or KK then it happens. Overall your line was good as you let him bet your good hand for you.

What did he showdown??

 

[blankoblanco]

before anyone asks, let me add that Ron was newish to the table but like 30/12 or something, fwiw. when he donks flop smallish, i don't think either of us are too worried about him having more than a pair 66-99

I don't see any way that he could call your all in with AA or KK with 2 8's on the board.

i consulted with kathy liebert and she agrees with me that your assessment is off. kid is 22/9, thus he likes to call more than raise, so i think he's very rarely 3betting me with 22 or an 8. how many 8s are in my range? very few. thus he should eaaasily get all-in with AA or KK on this board, and i'd expect a lot of players to get in with worse. he's always rightfully getting in with KK or AA here, and those are the only hands i'm particularly worried about

 

[WhatItDew]

Thats fine, i'm not here because i'm always right. I'm here to try and improve the way that I look at the game.

But if you're consulting with Kathy Liebert, what are you doing talking to a bunch of amateurs online?

 

[blankoblanco]

Thats fine, i'm not here because i'm always right. I'm here to try and improve the way that I look at the game.

But if you're consulting with Kathy Liebert, what are you doing talking to a bunch of amateurs online?

cause a lot of CC is better than kathy liebert imo

 

[WhatItDew]

lmao

 

[jeffred1111]

Are we really scaring away TT-JJ here by raising the flop ? Never underestimate the chances that villain puts you on AKd or just plain old AK and wants to keep you honest. But if you knew kid was raising 99+ here everytime (and also some screwy AK, air), then yes, c/shoving is fine.

I probably 3-bet preflop though, ron's money looks so sweet and we are OOP so we are screwed on any A or K high flop against two guys (we can only c/f or get it in, why not get it in now). Calling makes us virtually play for set value while stacking off regardless on a non threathening board.

 

[blankoblanco]

[x] would like a few more comments from others
[x] please
[ ] kathy liebert
[x] results to come

 

[viking999]

I think that given the line of calling on the flop, we'd have to fold to a raise, no? We're just calling in order to keep 99-JJ in the hand, but do we expect those hands to stack off after a bet and a call on a paired board? Not likely.

I'd put this one at 20% TT-JJ, 10% QQ, 70% KK+, which warrants a fold.

 

[zachvac]

hmm, well I don't play much 6max, but this is indeed a tough spot. JJ and it's an instant fold, KK and it's an instant push.

Seeing as he only raises 9% of flops (pretty sure this is pretty small at 6max), and that he put in a re-raise preflop, you have to have him probably on at least JJ+ here, with the possibility of AK depending on how in love he is with that hand. The flop is obviously blanks for everyone, I don't think there's any way he's doing this with TT or worse, and depending on how aggressive he's been don't see him making it $100 on this flop with AK, although it is possible he's trying a semi-bluff steal with AK. I would have folded here, thinking it's rare he does this with JJ, and anything less there's no way he does this. Aside from the possible AK, you're probably beat. Pushing here folds out JJ and AK, leaving basically only the hands you have beat. I would fold.

 

[blankoblanco]

Pushing here folds out JJ and AK, leaving basically only the hands you have beat. I would fold.

well, no, he's pot committed to the hand. he's getting something ridiculous like 6:1 on a call. if i can ever have a flush draw here, which i can, (and furthermore, lower pairs, cause he doesn't know for sure i'm solid and a non-donk), it's an easy call for him with either of those hands, or virtually anything he's raising

that being said, i don't necessarily love how i played the hand. it's a very precarious spot both preflop and on the flop. if he had been just a bit looser with raising, i'd have 4bet PF, but his stats made it pretty hellish and i think 4betting sucks a lot of the value out of my hand

results: he had AQ of diamonds and thanks to my lucky kathy liebert pendant, i miraculously dodged an A or diamond to hold