$200 NLHE Full Ring: Top Two gets reraised on flop

S

Sam Powers

Enthusiast
Hero dealt :8s4: :7h4: in BB w/ $236 stack

UTG1 limps w/ $472 stack, BTN limps, SB limps, hero checks

($8) :8c4: :7c4: :2h4:

SB checks, hero checks, UTG1 bets $4, BTN folds, SB folds, hero raises to $30, UTG1 reraises all in for $206 effective, hero calls.

Results below






















UTG1 tables :7d4: :7s4:
Hero tables :8s4: :7h4:

($420) :8c4: :7c4: :2h4: :6c4: :qh4:
 
C

c0rnBr34d

Visionary
Pretty sure we have to go broke here. Only difference I'd suggest is betting flop. When we have top two we block a lot of value and SB has already checked. We only have two players behind so unless we are sure one of them will bet we want to bet ourselves to start building a pot. Would be horrible for this to check through. We can get calls from wide ranges here in a limped pot. We only lose to 5 combos of sets since we block a ton and have a little equity vs the most likely set (22). We are slightly behind the OESF draws but only like 2-6%. We are ahead of combo draws as strong as Ac2c so really only the 5 set combos have us cooked. Don't see any way to get away from this.
 
C

cs_rlewis

Rock Star
Yes I would call this off especially since you are blocking a lot villains value. Top two pair is too strong to fold here unless villain is a super nit.
Unlucky when he shows a set
 
3

300HPGOD

Legend
Awards
10
Not loving this spot. Not sure what I would do in game other than I know my time bank would be close to zero when I made my decision. First I think your raise on the flop is too big. I like raising here obviously but 7.5x is too large to me. Somewhere in neighborhood of $20 is more what I would be thinking UNLESS you make up your mind before you raise this large that you are not folding to any re raise on this flop no matter the sizing. Then I am fine with it I guess but you are still folding out a lot of hands that you might want to keep in the hand (I know the board is wet but it still seems like a bet where we are only getting called if we are in potential trouble).

Getting back to the decision, since nothing was mentioned about villain I am going to say we know little about them. Therefore I would give a standard limp range (assuming that really exists which it doesnt) of small pocket pairs, some suited connectors, and Ace wheel suited hands. I think we can throw out 1010+ hands although I know there are some limp raisers out there but I am still mostly discounting it. I am thinking, with villains re raise that they are either set, Ace wheel of clubs, 56 of clubs or 109 of clubs. I dont think there are any bluffs here (I dont play at these levels so I could be wrong) and Im not sure how many players at this level over value AA-QQ here. Given we are behind a set, behind A2 clubs, and behind 109 and 56 of clubs I am not happy here. We are ahead of A5 and other non A2 wheel ace clubs but that might be it of their range other than big pairs if we can throw those in villains range.

We have two set blockers which helps but lets face it, this villain should not be piling 200 ish dollars over us after we check raised on this board. We announced we have something since we are not often if ever bluffing for this amount when there is that little in the pot before the bluff. Villain knows we are strong and is still piling on us. Im not sure in game I get myself to fold but I dont like this and before seeing the results. I would think you are behind facing a bet like this. This comes down to if you think villain would be limping with an intention to 3 bet with their big pairs pre and would they over value them in a spot like this. Theres definitely stuff out there like certain club draws that fit villains actions so if you fold you will be folding the best hand at times. Price is 1.4 to 1 if my math is right so that is enough to call with those hands you flip with like A2, 109, and 56 of clubs. Touch spot that is probably fairly close to even over time to call or fold if the range I gave was correct.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Awards
1
I would either lead here or go for a smaller check-raise. In these hand reviews I often complain about people check-raising to small, but here I think, its definitely to large. Its almost two times the pot, and I think, you are just getting a ton of folds with this sizing and only getting action, when you are beat or maybe against a very strong draw. And then he pile it in, which is another huge overbet of almost three times the pot.

I dont think, this is ever a draw, and even though it would be tough for me to fold in real time, I think, this is actually a fold. There is an old saying "never go broke in a limped pot", and I think, that applies here. The SPR is just so absurdly deep, because its a limped pot, and then you can basically only stack off the nuts.

Sure enough only 5 combos beat us here, but if these are the only combos, Villain can ever have, then we still need to fold. And I think, kind of the best case scenario here is, that he could have the same hand. Which would probably only be the suited variety, which there is only 1 combo of.

So realistically in my opinion Villain has 1 combo, we are chopping with and 5 combos, that have us crushed, and thats it. He dont have anything else. Ever. Not unless you have some read at least, that he is a totally crazy maniac. Which could be the case in a soft live game, and then this is just a whatever hand.

More importantly though if you had check-raised to a more normal size, or bet-called a normal sized raise, then the hand would have gone to the turn with a lot of chips left, and this turn card would surely have slowed the action down. So not playing so ridiculously fast would have given you a chance to get to showdown without going broke.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Awards
3
Assuming this is live, I don't think you need a big multi-way Cring range. Just bet the flop. As played, it is what it is... that's poker. You're going to go broke once you CR there and someone has a set. That's why you CR'd... or hopefully you understood that you CR'd hoping someone would shove.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Awards
3
I would either lead here or go for a smaller check-raise. In these hand reviews I often complain about people check-raising to small, but here I think, its definitely to large. Its almost two times the pot, and I think, you are just getting a ton of folds with this sizing and only getting action, when you are beat or maybe against a very strong draw. And then he pile it in, which is another huge overbet of almost three times the pot.

I dont think, this is ever a draw, and even though it would be tough for me to fold in real time, I think, this is actually a fold. There is an old saying "never go broke in a limped pot", and I think, that applies here. The SPR is just so absurdly deep, because its a limped pot, and then you can basically only stack off the nuts.

Sure enough only 5 combos beat us here, but if these are the only combos, Villain can ever have, then we still need to fold. And I think, kind of the best case scenario here is, that he could have the same hand. Which would probably only be the suited variety, which there is only 1 combo of.

So realistically in my opinion Villain has 1 combo, we are chopping with and 5 combos, that have us crushed, and thats it. He dont have anything else. Ever. Not unless you have some read at least, that he is a totally crazy maniac. Which could be the case in a soft live game, and then this is just a whatever hand.

More importantly though if you had check-raised to a more normal size, or bet-called a normal sized raise, then the hand would have gone to the turn with a lot of chips left, and this turn card would surely have slowed the action down. So not playing so ridiculously fast would have given you a chance to get to showdown without going broke.


In a live 1/2 game you don't think people are Cring draws here? Granted I haven't played 1/2 live in a long time, but this was common when I played.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Awards
1
In a live 1/2 game you don't think people are Cring draws here? Granted I haven't played 1/2 live in a long time, but this was common when I played.

The opponent did not check-raise. He bet, and then when facing a check-raise for 2 times the pot, he 3-bet jammed for 3 times the pot.
 
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