$200 NLHE Full Ring: Playing against LAG OOP single raised pot

[quant1986]

£1/1 live weekend game

HJ (Hero): ~150BB
BTN (V1): ~600BB, LAG, playing draw very aggressively, previously won a big hand raising with KQo IP after preflop aggressor cbet on AJ6r flop in 3bet pot.
BB (V2): 100BB, weak rec

HJ raised to 4BB with K♥Q♦ , BTN called. BB called.

Flop:(£13) Q♣Q♠5♣

BB checked. HJ checked. BTN bet £10, BB folded. HJ called.

I could have c-bet but perhaps stack too deep to go 3bet allin if V1 raises behind and LAG could stab with air IP if I checked back. Game plan is to check-raise most non-club turn cards.

Turn:(£33) 7♣

HJ checked. BTN bet £35. HJ called.

Not a card I want to see but I have flush in my range. Not sure what range V1 put me on and his overbet range.

River(£103) 9♠

HJ bet £60. BTN snap called.

Don't want V1 check back random Qx so decided to float here.

Retrospectively I don't like my bet size, would rather go for a small bet-call line induce some bluff, or all in to target Qx. I think 60% pot may get called by some AA/KK/JJ but V1 likely 3bet preflop.

How would you play this hand?

 

[gustav197poker]

Considering the characteristics you mention of the villain, I would have bet on the flop, and if I receive a raise, I will probably go with everything from this place.
We have 4 AK combos that exceed us in our line, but if we increase that flop again, sometimes we are inducing a direct block, due to the low probability of representing a Q (only 2 combos grant us trips). So I think as one of the options, to give the villain his own medicine, and although I don't think it is the most optimal alternative in ev, it is worth this way to compensate for our positional disadvantage and counteract the aggressiveness of v.
It can call you an overpair with backdoor flush, or some tall or medium pair that is willing to defend. But do not be surprised, if for example this type of villain, calls you on the turn with low spaced connectors (6-8), because they could often do it from btn.
So this hand, I probably solve it on the flop. Another more standard option, but something closed for my liking, is to make fold preflop, because we are somewhat behind and since we can only show strength of value from hj, being covered by the btn, all this indicates that we are very badly protected, in margin of action and with respect to our range, compared to a domineering LAG.
Another important detail that I forgot, I think you should upload more in preflop. Something like 8bb or 9bb as a minimum in live games 1/1.
Regards.

 

[fundiver199]

Flop
I dont really see any reason to not bet this hand for value into two opponents. Sure BTN might be somewhat aggressive, but is he always going to bluff multiway? I want to get some value from worse QX, 66-JJ and clubs, and the most certain way to achieve that is to just bet.

Turn
As played check-call is fine. Clubs got there but still cant fold. Hoping a little bit for a K, Q or board pair now.

River
This is where, the hand gets really weird in my opinion. When he overbet that turn, it pretty much polarizes his range to a flush, a boat or air, and donk leading into that kind of range accomplish nothing. This in my opinion is either a check-call or even a check-fold as played, depending how much you think, he is triple barreling as a bluff.

 

[LevySystem]

£1/1 live weekend game

HJ (Hero): ~150BB
BTN (V1): ~600BB, LAG, playing draw very aggressively, previously won a big hand raising with KQo IP after preflop aggressor cbet on AJ6r flop in 3bet pot.
BB (V2): 100BB, weak rec

HJ raised to 4BB with K♥Q♦ , BTN called. BB called.

Flop:(£13) Q♣Q♠5♣

BB checked. HJ checked. BTN bet £10, BB folded. HJ called.

I could have c-bet but perhaps stack too deep to go 3bet allin if V1 raises behind and LAG could stab with air IP if I checked back. Game plan is to check-raise most non-club turn cards.

Turn:(£33) 7♣

HJ checked. BTN bet £35. HJ called.

Not a card I want to see but I have flush in my range. Not sure what range V1 put me on and his overbet range.

River(£103) 9♠

HJ bet £60. BTN snap called.

Don't want V1 check back random Qx so decided to float here.

Retrospectively I don't like my bet size, would rather go for a small bet-call line induce some bluff, or all in to target Qx. I think 60% pot may get called by some AA/KK/JJ but V1 likely 3bet preflop.

How would you play this hand?

Id check raise flop there. You are top of you're range on this board and considering he's playing quite aggro I think you should punish this. Also you are playing a single raise pot 150bb eff, so in order to stack people you need some action.

Turn play check call and reevaluate on the river. He is certainly the kind of guy the kind of guy that turns JTs spades into a bluff on these boards so keep that in mind.

Apart from flushes hes not repping a lot as you block most value on this board. Depends on his Vpip I think. Is he playing tight/ reasonale/ or loose preflop? What does he 3bet with?

 

[Vlad Savchenko]

On the flop if you decide to check, raising is way better than calling.
You want to punish the villain for being too aggressive, that's fine. But realistically once he did bet that board, does he continue to fire multi-way with nothing? Most people would at least have a flush draw when they bet twice here in his shoes.
Getting one bet from air is a great result, now it's time to get value from flush draws, worse Qx and maybe some pocket pairs. You're only beat if he has 77 or didn't 3-bet AQ (which is unlikely, as he's an aggressive player).

Check/calling turn is fine, your hand is too strong to fold here. Worth noting that he may be value betting thin with a worse Qx, as your hand now looks as a pocket pair (he'd most likely expect you to bet your flush draws and Qx, which you should actually do).

River bet just doesn't do anything. Yeah, you will get value from his thin turn valuebets - QJs and QTs, but thats 2 combos.
Other than that - flushes are never folding, as well as boats. You're just valuebetting yourself here like 90% of the time.

 

[quant1986]

On the flop if you decide to check, raising is way better than calling.
You want to punish the villain for being too aggressive, that's fine. But realistically once he did bet that board, does he continue to fire multi-way with nothing? Most people would at least have a flush draw when they bet twice here in his shoes.
Getting one bet from air is a great result, now it's time to get value from flush draws, worse Qx and maybe some pocket pairs. You're only beat if he has 77 or didn't 3-bet AQ (which is unlikely, as he's an aggressive player).

Check/calling turn is fine, your hand is too strong to fold here. Worth noting that he may be value betting thin with a worse Qx, as your hand now looks as a pocket pair (he'd most likely expect you to bet your flush draws and Qx, which you should actually do).

River bet just doesn't do anything. Yeah, you will get value from his thin turn valuebets - QJs and QTs, but thats 2 combos.
Other than that - flushes are never folding, as well as boats. You're just valuebetting yourself here like 90% of the time.

V1 has shown calling very wide IP so I guess his Qx range would be something like Q9o+,Q5s+.

 

[Vlad Savchenko]

V1 has shown calling very wide IP so I guess his Qx range would be something like Q9o+,Q5s+.

Well, than he's more of a fish than LAG, as it would've been really spewy to call this wide.
Even if we add these combos to his range, this means a few things:
1. We're now ahead of 10 combos instead of 2.
2. He now also has Q9o boats, Q7s and Q5s boats, all the K-high flushes that shouldn't normally be there like K6s.

So even if we widen his range, this also means that there are more combos that beat us. Maybe now it's 75% instead of 90%, but you need to be ahead 50%+ of the time against a continue range, and it just doesn't seem realistic.

 

[fundiver199]

The turn brought in a potential flush, and three players are still in pot. This mean, that a competent player will not be overbetting a hand like Q9-QJ, even if he has it from preflop. Both opponents can now have a flush, or they could still have him outkicked, and no worse hands are going to call, when he overbet the pot.

The term "LAG" gets bantered around a lot, but often its used about someone, who is just an aggressive fish, also sometimes known as donkey or maniac. And this is kind of important, because the way we want to approach a true LAG is not the same as the way, we want to approach an aggressive fish.

 

[quant1986]

Well, than he's more of a fish than LAG, as it would've been really spewy to call this wide.
Even if we add these combos to his range, this means a few things:
1. We're now ahead of 10 combos instead of 2.
2. He now also has Q9o boats, Q7s and Q5s boats, all the K-high flushes that shouldn't normally be there like K6s.

So even if we widen his range, this also means that there are more combos that beat us. Maybe now it's 75% instead of 90%, but you need to be ahead 50%+ of the time against a continue range, and it just doesn't seem realistic.

The weekend line up is fairly weak so I think he can still be profitable calling that wide against most 1/1 rec players.

The turn brought in a potential flush, and three players are still in pot. This mean, that a competent player will not be overbetting a hand like Q9-QJ, even if he has it from preflop. Both opponents can now have a flush, or they could still have him outkicked, and no worse hands are going to call, when he overbet the pot.

The term "LAG" gets bantered around a lot, but often its used about someone, who is just an aggressive fish, also sometimes known as donkey or maniac. And this is kind of important, because the way we want to approach a true LAG is not the same as the way, we want to approach an aggressive fish.

I think you are right a very competent player may not overbet weak Q on this turn.

Anyway villain should have a weak Q in this hand as he mucked after I tabled my hand.

 

[Vlad Savchenko]

The weekend line up is fairly weak so I think he can still be profitable calling that wide against most 1/1 rec players.

There's a difference between a wide flatting range and a spewy one. No matter how good you are, and how bad is your opposition, you can't just play garbage and expect it to be profitable long-term.
In one of his recent Youtube videos "mynameiskarl", Z500 regular, played some Z50 and encountered a spot with QTo in BB, where I believe a HJ raised 3x.
He said roughly the following: "QTo here's a losing call, especially given the rake and 3x size. Even though I definitely have an edge over this opponent, I'm not going to try and turn bad plays into profitable ones, if they are losing at equilibrium".
Of course 1/1 game is pretty much as far from equilibrium as it gets, but so is flatting Q5s on the button.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Sucks to get in after results but here are my thoughts:
Pre: What was the normal pre flop raise sizing? In any live game I've played 4x is very small and may not generate enough folds. Looks like we got it to 3 ways here which isn't a bad result so sizing could be fine but in my experience a little larger may be more effective.

Flop: Just lead the flop. Qx may raise, flush draws from aggressive players may raise. All sorts of hands you beat could call to draw. As played if we do check then check / raise.

Turn: Check call is good.

River: I think check call is standard here but I am assuming you are putting out a blocker bet for 60% pot to prevent yourself from having to call a larger pot sized bet or overbet from LAG. As played this may be good, it depends a lot on LAG. If he's more of a maniac just x/eval mostly calling based on reads. If he is thinking and reacting then it will be very hard for him to raise a flush on a paired board and he may be forced to flat all his Qx and flushes limiting our losses when he has the flush and still getting value when he has Qx or whatever else he snaps with. This also prevents us from folding incorrectly if he pots it with a weaker Qx or some other bluff.

Keep in mind we have taken a very passive line post flop and this could induce bluffs from LAGs. The board looks scary and no one is betting so these players may want to apply max pressure with a wide range in position. Had we played more aggressively flop and turn we could fold more often on the river.

 

[fundiver199]

Anyway villain should have a weak Q in this hand as he mucked after I tabled my hand.

In that case you probably just got really lucky, that you pipped his QJ or maybe his QT. That does still not make it a good value bet though. There are only 8 combos of QJ and QT, there are 4 combos of AQ, 3 combos of 55, possibly 3 combos of Q9 and a lot of different combos of the flush. As Vlad said already, maybe you are good here 25% of the time, when he give your river bet action.

 

[quant1986]

In that case you probably just got really lucky, that you pipped his QJ or maybe his QT. That does still not make it a good value bet though. There are only 8 combos of QJ and QT, there are 4 combos of AQ, 3 combos of 55, possibly 3 combos of Q9 and a lot of different combos of the flush. As Vlad said already, maybe you are good here 25% of the time, when he give your river bet action.

Yes I don't like my river bet size and I don't have any good bluff as well.

I can just check raise the flop and GII if villain 3bet as unlikely he can fold Qx.

 

[quant1986]

Sucks to get in after results but here are my thoughts:
Pre: What was the normal pre flop raise sizing? In any live game I've played 4x is very small and may not generate enough folds. Looks like we got it to 3 ways here which isn't a bad result so sizing could be fine but in my experience a little larger may be more effective.

I think 4x open is sweetspot for me as I don't mind playing multiway pot as people tend to make huge mistakes and overvalue their hands in those spots. Also against more competent players who 3bet light, I can have a 4bet-fold range.