$200 NLHE Full Ring: LIVE - Hero w/ top two checks dark. Next card scare card.

3betfish

3betfish

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LIVE $1$/3 game
Hero looks down at J♦️Q♦️ From the button.

Hero is short stacked with $200.
EP And MP limp.
BTN raises to $25. BTN opens a lot of hands, and varies their raise sizes.
Hero from SB calls.
BB is invited in and calls. Folds around.

HERO CHECKS DARK
Flop: Q♣️J♠️7♥️
Pot: $81

BB checks. BTN tanks and checks.
Turn is T♠️.
Hero bets $40
BB folds.
BTN tanks and puts hero all in.

Call remaining short stack or fold?
 
Q

quant1986

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No particular read then easy call, simply too many draws on this board that villain could play aggressively as he opens many hands and you are short stack.
 
PaxMundi

PaxMundi

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No reads on what the sizes mean ? if they vary the raise size larger could mean premium hands ? $25 is just over 8bb which is pretty big.Even vs 2 limpers with a $3 big blind i would expect an iso to be around $15 or 5bb preflop.We are also in the SB so a bad position for us and basically just have a dominated drawing hand.I would fold this preflop.As played i wouldn't be delighted about it but i'm calling the shove but it's a spot i don't think we should be in.You could think about 4betting pre with this hand as a bluff to like $60 if you think you have enough fold equity but i think it's probably unnecessary.
 
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Gildog89

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I agree, fold preflop from SB here. Also, why check dark? I have never understood why anyone checks dark. I think this is a spot that you could donk lead into for value.

As played, I think you should make a crying call. You are still ahead of a lot of villains range (KsQs, AsQs, AA, KK), even though AK is probably the most likely hand in villain's range as the hand played out.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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first thing: i NEVER check dark. it takes away donk betting from our tool box. although its very rare, in the right situation, a good donk bet can be very effective. why do we ever want to play in a game where we are willingly removing potential edges from ourselves? its hard to say if this is one of those situations. i dont think it really is though since i see donk betting as a way to give false information about our range or to get villain to spazz out and play overly aggressively.

without reads, i default to assuming varying raise sizes is a bet sizing tell. personally, i vary my raise sizes based on how many players are left in the hand and my position (i open larger if in early position or if there are a lot of limpers who will be left to act after i raise) so pay attention to see if they are doing this, but until proven otherwise, assume larger bets mean stronger hands. I imagine preflop you are not ahead of his range very often so we should probably just get out of the way being both shortstacked and out of position.

i think as played its very close. my question though is when you bet 40 on the turn, what hands are you expecting to call? how many of those hands do you beat and how many of those hands are you behind?
 
Bozovicdj

Bozovicdj

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Checking dark is OK, I am not saying it is good, but isn't as bad either. Basically you say that you can have any two cards 27 through AA. That being said, T2P is, IMO, great hand to hit when you checked in the dark. Unfortunately, BTN didn't c-bet for you to check-raise.
Regardless, that Ts is probably the worst card in the deck for you, flush got there, several straights got there, not to mention that villain most likely has TT/99 there, and couldn't find a c-bet with two over cards on the flop.
All that being said, why lead the turn? You hit a great flop, but got worst possible turn, so why lead? just check-call it to the river, and see what happens.
IMO, there is nothing bad in folding the river after check-calling the turn, especially if another spade hits...
This way, I would fold the turn, villain showed a lot of strength by shoving.
In my head I have a range for villain, so if this hand got to showdown, I would appreciate if you would eventually say what villain had.
 
3betfish

3betfish

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dj11

dj11

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Because you tell us it is a LIVE game, and the Button opens a lot of hands, with varying bet sizes ;

I'm calling .

One of the things LAGS tend to do is to overbet small pair, or small connectors. And underbet big hands. In both situations, they tend to see value in the deceptions.

Rainbow flop, the turn might have improved a draw, but the flush hasn't got there yet. He might have hit the straight, but with the info you provide, I wouldn't overestimate his hand. IMO, the villains line suggests 77 more than AK, or 89. But if he had any of those hands would he really put you all in?, I think not, I think he would go for value and try to squeeze another bet out of you.

I'm calling the shove.

I agree, you shouldn't have checked dark. That leads to FPS (fancy play syndrome) beats.
 
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formertroll

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i'm going to agree with those who said the preflop bet was too low and that checking dark was a bad idea. but i'll also say that with that villain i'm not sure you could have gotten him to fold the flop with a reasonable bet.
 
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