$200 NLHE Full Ring: JJ on a AAQ flop

[dustyp68]

Hero JhJc in cutoff

Villian on button,

preflop - Hero raise to $17, Button calls, SB calls,

Flop AcAdQc

SB checks, Hero bets $35, Villian calls, SB folds

Turn 4h

Hero checks, Villian checks

River - 2s

Hero Checks, Villian - allin for $65

Hero - ?

 

[0815am]

I don’t really like the cbet on the Flop. Aren’t we only getting called by better and fold out all worse?

I’d rather check call once dependent of reads on villains too. And then check fold turn easily to another bet.

As played i‘d fold river expecting an ace 90% of time.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Yeah I think since we have the Jc we can check the flop a lot. If we had the Ace we would check the flop a lot as well. If we had KK or QQ we would check the flop at some frequency. If he checks behind we can delay c-bet turn and eval from there. If he bets flop we can call one time depending on sizing and check / fold turn.

 

[Aballinamion]

Hero JhJc in cutoff

Villian on button,

preflop - Hero raise to $17, Button calls, SB calls,

Flop AcAdQc

SB checks, Hero bets $35, Villian calls, SB folds

Turn 4h

Hero checks, Villian checks

River - 2s

Hero Checks, Villian - allin for $65

Hero - ?

Hello there dustyp68, good evening, thank you for posting your hand.
One question, if this is 200 NLHE:

A) Your raise was in gap, or somebody else made a 3-bet before you?
B) Why did you raise so high? The blinds are not 1/2? It seems somebody raised before you and you made a 3-bet of 2.8x? (If the player before you raised 3x).
C) This is 200 NLHE and the ammount of players is minimal. Do you have any information of BTN or BB?
D) If this is 200 NLHE you should be playing more GTO against regulars and more Exploitative games versus fishes (if there are too many fishes at 200 NLHE nowadays).

I believe many solvers could be checking this flop (mixing between checking and betting 1/3 pot with the vast majority of our range), because you have a very strong value hand which can draw into some turns/rivers and, like other players said before, without the risk of appearing as a broken record, if you have Ax you should be checking here a lot because now we are blocking 75% of combos of Ax that opponent could've called.
If we had AQ we would never be betting here. If we had QQ the same, it is most likely to be the nuts in a situation like this.
The same goes for KK, JJ and TT.
Having two players to speak after you, if I understood correctly, if you raised USD 17 preflop and got two callers now the pot has USD 51, okay? Thus, when you bet USD 35 you are polarizing your range quite a bit, because there aren't too many draws to charge here, except JT and KJ but those are minimal. Many decent players at 200 NLHE could be Squeezing from time to time some combos of JT and KJ either from the BTN or from the blinds.
Experient regulars at the field are going to catch you right on the spot, when you make a bet of a little bit more than 1/2 pot, where you shouldn't.
Your range from the CO is a dynamic range: you might have AA, KK, AK, AQ, etc but you also will have JT, J9, QT, Q9, T9s, etc. So, what are you representing when you bet more than 1/2 pot into a semi-dry board like this? Because if you have a full-house a flush draw-straight draw is the least of your concerns. Even if you have trips, is a very comfortable scenario where you are going to hit your boat in a low frequency.
If you'd decided to bet, it should be something around 1/3 pot or just a slightly higher than this, not 1/2 pot or more, IMO.
Once you started your story in the flop, polarizing your range quite a bit, I would advocate that you should send another barrel in the turn, and a big one, to polarize even more your range: something between 60% and 130% pot (to put Villain in many rivers into all-in), so like this you could represent AA, AQ, QQ, but when you check turn and check river you will have a lot of hands that can fold, such as Qx, JJ, TT, 99, 88, and the experient player in position can bluff you a lot, knowing that you will have a hand such as a pocket pair that would not sustain pressure in the river, if the player in position gives a convincent price.
If you decide to call "too see" whether the player is bluffing you or not, you will be playing wrong (in the long run).
IF you raised 8.5 bb preflop in position when it comes in gap, you are playing a very high exploitative game. Do not expect regulars of the field to call you with trash when you raise this much. And even if they call you with trash, they will be able to outplay you off the hand.
Your preflop raise was unbalanced.
Your C-bet flop was unbalanced.
This is more than an average regular needs to find the best way to exploit your range.


Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[dustyp68]

It is a 1/2 game that plays more like a 2/5 game. In Texas so no rake which chip stacks can get very deep.

I do agree with the suggestion of I should of did a 2/3 pot bet on turn. Was being nitty I guess. I did show a bluff a few hands prior.

Button unknown. SB loose older guy.

Anyways he showed a busted flush draw after I folded.

 

[LevySystem]

Hero JhJc in cutoff

Villian on button,

preflop - Hero raise to $17, Button calls, SB calls,

Flop AcAdQc

SB checks, Hero bets $35, Villian calls, SB folds

Turn 4h

Hero checks, Villian checks

River - 2s

Hero Checks, Villian - allin for $65

Hero - ?

Hey there,

please make sure to include stacksizes and potsizes with the next hands you post, as it makes analyzing hands a lot easier.

Calling in the SB would be the first sign of someone being a weaker player, especially if you allready know that hes on the looser side. BU vs CO and SB vs CO should 3bet most of theire Ax and as QQ is also 3betting you have a massive range-advantage on that board as youre uncapped. That being said you still have a lot of hands in youre range wich should bluff that spot. So only thing you really have to worry about is Qx. And thats not a huge part on villains ranges. If we sum this up i like youre x on the turn to induce villains bluffs. If he doesnt we are most likely behind a Qx wich SB is most likely not betting for value (as hes a weaker player) and hands we beat.

PS. Is Hero even CO??? so much info missing

 

[greatgame230]

The raise in the pre-flop is very high, which makes it impossible to make a cbet with that flop. the villain range had to be in Ax maybe KQs, I would have played it the lowest raise in the pre-flop so I would have done a cbet and then it was check / fold, I recommend using the hand converter if it was online to do more easy the hand analysis

 

[Bozovicdj]

The raise in the pre-flop is very high, which makes it impossible to make a cbet with that flop. the villain range had to be in Ax maybe KQs, I would have played it the lowest raise in the pre-flop so I would have done a cbet and then it was check / fold, I recommend using the hand converter if it was online to do more easy the hand analysis

Hello there dustyp68, good evening, thank you for posting your hand.
One question, if this is 200 NLHE:

A) Your raise was in gap, or somebody else made a 3-bet before you?
B) Why did you raise so high? The blinds are not 1/2? It seems somebody raised before you and you made a 3-bet of 2.8x? (If the player before you raised 3x).
C) This is 200 NLHE and the ammount of players is minimal. Do you have any information of BTN or BB?
D) If this is 200 NLHE you should be playing more GTO against regulars and more Exploitative games versus fishes (if there are too many fishes at 200 NLHE nowadays).

His pre flop raise is not big, I would say it is a pretty standard size for SOME live cash games. Places where I play cash games are just the same, I don't remember when and if I ever saw a 3x or whatever is standard for online games.

The deeper the stacks, the bigger the raises pre are, and honestly 10x is pretty standard where I play.

That being said, when BU and SB calls, we shouldnt put them only on top of the range. I can see calls there with so many suited connectors, pocket pairs etc.

As for the hand:
pre-flop is fine (this big of a bet is standard in live games in some poker clubs)

Flop: Why did you bet the turn? for value or as a bluff? not too many hands will be bluffed off here, like all Ax hands will call the flop, probably all Qx hands too. So, if you wanted to rep a strong A, then betting the turn was mandatory.
By betting flop, checking turn, you pretty much said: "I have a pocket pair 66-TT or I have a hand that is even less strong and missed completely"

That being said, I can see good players exploiting that, but they would probably do it on the turn, and not wait for the river.

If I was in villain's position, I am betting turn with any Ax and Qx, and because you showed weakness, I am betting with most of my pocket pairs as well, sometimes, I would throw in a bluff with KJ, KT.

Since Villain checked the turn back, I would say that he is either bad at the game, or he also has a smaller pocket pair (smaller then a Q) and when the 2 hit the river, he feels safe to bet, and hope to win it then and there. It doesn't look like he wants a showdown and see a better pair calling. It is either that, or he had hit a boat on the turn/river.

It is a tough spot on the river, I would probably fold it, but that's just cause you've put yourself in this tough spot

 

[Aballinamion]

His pre flop raise is not big, I would say it is a pretty standard size for SOME live cash games. Places where I play cash games are just the same, I don't remember when and if I ever saw a 3x or whatever is standard for online games.

The deeper the stacks, the bigger the raises pre are, and honestly 10x is pretty standard where I play.

That being said, when BU and SB calls, we shouldnt put them only on top of the range. I can see calls there with so many suited connectors, pocket pairs etc.

As for the hand:
pre-flop is fine (this big of a bet is standard in live games in some poker clubs)

Flop: Why did you bet the turn? for value or as a bluff? not too many hands will be bluffed off here, like all Ax hands will call the flop, probably all Qx hands too. So, if you wanted to rep a strong A, then betting the turn was mandatory.
By betting flop, checking turn, you pretty much said: "I have a pocket pair 66-TT or I have a hand that is even less strong and missed completely"

That being said, I can see good players exploiting that, but they would probably do it on the turn, and not wait for the river.

If I was in villain's position, I am betting turn with any Ax and Qx, and because you showed weakness, I am betting with most of my pocket pairs as well, sometimes, I would throw in a bluff with KJ, KT.

Since Villain checked the turn back, I would say that he is either bad at the game, or he also has a smaller pocket pair (smaller then a Q) and when the 2 hit the river, he feels safe to bet, and hope to win it then and there. It doesn't look like he wants a showdown and see a better pair calling. It is either that, or he had hit a boat on the turn/river.

It is a tough spot on the river, I would probably fold it, but that's just cause you've put yourself in this tough spot

Hi there Bozovicdj, good evening. Thank you very much for your comment very deep and good.
Sorry for my poor analysis, I was considering only the online cash in my analysis. Sometimes I make this mistake, because I never play live cash.
I didn't know that at live cash game tables people have ridiculous preflop raises like this when deep stacked. It sounds very strange when two other players decide to call such a huge preflop raise, this is pure exploitative game. I am not saying that I don't love it, I am just very impressed to read this!
In on-line cash, players who elect to open exploitative preflop raises like this huge size will be hunted to death for all the players in the field.
I actually didn't put BTN and SB in the top of the range, but I believed that because of the preflop raise of almost 10x they would be more inclined to call down with a more capped/valued range.
Anyways, even if they call wide, we have so many combos of Ax (all the suited aces? almost all of the off-suited aces? Don't need to mention the Qx's..), that could be in the BTN's and SB's range that we see it is very easy to forget our pocket J's.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[fundiver199]

I dont like C-betting the flop. It was one of the worst possible flops for JJ with two overcards. If we bet here, we are never folding out a better hand, and we are never getting called by worse except some draws.

Moreover building a large pot also increase the risk of us getting bluffed. If flop and turn had gone check-check, maybe BTN would just have given up. Or if he tried a bluff, it would be easier for us to snap it off, because the pot would be smaller, and his range much wider.

 

[hackmeplz]

Yeah definitely check flop, probably ch/f based on sizing. As played though I think you should call river. He's almost definitely shoving turn with ax and I don't think most 1/2 live players are good enough to value shove kq here.

 

[GWU73]

I prefer a smaller pre flop raise. You are creating a large pot with low SPR, this traps you vs opponents stronger hands, when JJ is usually a modest hand post flop. JJ looks pretty pre flop, but it's no monster. Raise $6-$10. You do NOT want to limit calls to hands that beat you. Also, keeping the pot smaller gives you more leverage and flexibility than bombing pre flop.

It's not about winning pots, it's about winning money.