This is a discussion on $200 NLHE Full Ring: AQ all in vs 2 opponents within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; Played some live $1/$2 this weekend and just wanted to share a few hands and get some opinions. Always like to be improving and never
Played some live $1/$2 this weekend and just wanted to share a few hands and get some opinions. Always like to be improving and never hurts to have other players analyzing your hands.
V1 is a LAG player been at my table from the start.
V2 is new to the table, fairly aggressive and knows how to navigate the game pretty well.
Chips stacks would be effective - I have both opponents covered.
V1 opens from utg to $8, V2 calls in mp, folds around and I look down at in the BB - elect to 3bet to $30. They both call and we go to a flop of
They both check, I cbet for $40 and get snap jammed on by V1 for a total of $87 - I know what to do about that and I couldn't be happier - then a weird even takes place and V2 just flats the $87 behind...
While I figure at this point I could easily have the best hand but I want to build a side pot incase I am to lose the main pot - I jam over the top putting V2 all in for about an additional $140. He squirms for a good while, thinks it over and eventually tosses his chips in the pot and we are all in vs 2 opponents.
Turn and river come -
V1 to my surprise shows
even worse V2 shows us
We don't win the main or side pot, losing to kings which didn't 4bet pre and a pretty loose call off with 2nd pair who lucked up and drilled the turn...not a great start lol.
I don't think there was too much here I was to do differently - but what do you guys think? How would you have played this hand?
Thanks for the post.
I would have bet smaller on the flop, but if I faced an aggressive player I would have gone on the flop, to protect my range, since it is a dangerous flop and I would not significantly reduce my chip stack to face a color obtained by the opponent on the river, or things of that style.
Regarding v2 your bet is strange to me, it makes me think that v2 could have gotten lucky on the flop with double pairs, or maybe it has many nuts in its range that you can not protect.
Anyway, it is worth highlighting the case of fold equity offered by v2.
I think you played well, luck was not on your side.
I think, there are two ways to look at this hand. The first is the GTO approach, where we assume, that both V1 and V2 are playing correct ranges. And in that case AQo is not in great shape before the flop against a large UTG open and a flat. Its probably just a fold, although its pretty close, and 3-betting is slightly less bad than calling. Also when V2 cold called a raise on the flop, he should be extremely strong, and TPTK would then be a fairly clear fold.
However these guys were clearly not strong GTO-style players. From the description V1 was probably opening to many hands from all positions of the table, and regarding V2 the hand, he showed up with, speak for itself. So against these two goofballs, and especially V2, it was obviously correct to widen your value range by 3-betting AQo preflop and taking TPTK to the filts. You just happened to run into the top of V1´s range, and V2 sucked out on you on the turn. That will happen from time to time and does not mean, you did anything wrong
re: Poker & $200 NLHE Full Ring: AQ all in vs 2 opponents
I feel the same way. Digging more into V2 - he was a good player, not a GREAT player. He was opening alot of hands preflop using an exploitative aggressive style of play - picking on the people to TAG to call him in certain spots, knowing when he should give up, bet big, continue firing, etc. He wasnt playing the greatest hands but he was playing a very good game at our table. I didnt expect him to show up so light after my 3bet preflop - but surely thought I had him beat at the moment. why the laggier of the 2 players didnt 4bet kings preflop i will never know. He 3bet jammed with jacks earlier in the in the night.
I only play live, 1/2 and 2/5. Opening UTG to $8 is one of two things, he wants to get raised or he is hoping for a bunch of limpers, unless you had some sort of read, you couldn't know which. Many loose players will make that open bet from any position with any two playable cards such as connectors, 2 gappers, anything suited. It is not a big opening bet in any of the card rooms I visit. V1 wanted to disguise his premiums and it worked. The fact that he didn't 4 bet you is fairly common in that KK is feared as Ace bait, and he was waiting to make sure the flop didn't zap his hand with an A.
I am often too conservative, but I would have put one of the players, V2, on the flush draw, maybe an open ended straight draw, and expected one of them, V1, to have me beat with tooper, suited Q9 or 97, or a set of 9s or 7s. The odds of top top being good at that point are low, and the odds of it surviving the turn and river are even lower. I would have folded at that point. Which would have been the wrong thing to do.
I don't think you did anything terribly wrong by shoving. In fact, I think shoving was the mathematically correct thing to do and that I'm too often too chicken.
V1 is not obligated to reveal his premiums and he out played you. It happens. V2 was just a bad beat, it happens.
V2 was the far more likely to be on a draw, priced in by V1 and the expectation that you would call based on your prior strength. I like the idea you had to build a side pot. There isn't enough poker writing on the importance of side pots in certain situations, and that was a good situation for building a side pot. If there was no significant side pot available, I would have said you made a bone head move by not folding. But V2's stack would in most cases made you a nice profit on the hand, so you made a good move forcing him to call you dollar for dollar in a side pot where you are better than 60/40 to win if he is on the flush or straight draws, and better than 80/20 vs his actual hand. If his cards were face up, you would have absolutely shoved. He should not have been, but he was pot committed at that point, hoping for the miracle that he received.
He had 5 outs to beat you and got lucky. If he hadn't, you would be telling us what a genius you were for profiting in a hand even though you lost the main.
I feel the same way. Digging more into V2 - he was a good player, not a GREAT player.
Someone calling a raise and then a 3-bet with complete junk like 94s and then stacking off on the flop with second pair no kicker against two opponents is NOT a good player. Maybe he sometimes did something right, but this guy is clearly a fish and a long term losing player. You just cant defy math in the long run, if you make plays like this.
You are right...my notes are off and that completely throws the entire hand off...I cbet the flop into two opponents - they did not have the ability to check in front. The other actions are correct
ok that makes sense.
Did you size your cbet so that the small stack shoving all-in re-opens the betting ? I thought your cbet was kind of small for a $91 pot, but if you make it anything above $44, the short stack shoving $87 does not re-open betting and you have to flat V2's call instead of shoving over the top.