$200 NLHE Full Ring: Am i right to check behind?

TenJack

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Recently was in this spot on the river at a 1/2 no limit table. Action is folded around to the villain, who raises 3x BB, action then folded around to hero on the button with 8c 8h. Hero just calls, SB folds, BB calls.

The villain is a reasonably good TAG player who likes to get sticky preflop with any Ax, continuation bets on nearly every flop, and likes to make river check raises both as bluffs and for value. Sorry i dont have more info, had only recently sat down and observed this.


Flop comes: 8d 4h 3s Pot: $10

BB checks, villain bets $7, hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: A c, board is 8d 4h 3s Ac, Pot: $24

Villain bets $12, hero raises to $30, villian calls.

River: A s. Board is now: 8d 4h 3s Ac As.

Villian checks, hero checks.
 
hugh blair

hugh blair

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Played the hand perfectly to the river as do not want to scare opponent away river is an all in jam because if he had a bigger boat or poker of aces he bets river!
Missed value from AK or AQ I reckon as he called your turn bet and with trips or KK QQ even he might pay you off on river.
Good luck.:)
 
Jblocher1

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$200 NLHE Full Ring: Am i right to check behind?

Size turn bigger and you are losing so much value from non boat Ax by not betting this river here. The reason we size turn bigger here is that we need to have some bluff raises in our range. You are never bluffing with that sizing and so very strong villains are likely folding all non two pair Ax here against you. If you bet river and he insta ships we can maybe ponder a fold but this is a mandatory bet for sure
 
TheBigFinn

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Preflop and Flop OK, IMHO. Turn re-raise is light. The $30 is actually two beats, a $12 call making the pot $48 and an $18 raise. I would have made it $36. Hero needs to bet the river. The only hands Hero is losing to are A3, A4, A8 and AA. Does Villain play AA this way? No. How about A3o, A4o, A8o? I doubt it.Suited? Maybe. That's 9 combos. What else gets Villain to the river AK, AQ, AJ, KK, QQ, JJ, 33, 44. Lots of combos there. Hero is giving up value checking back the river, IMHO
 
c9h13no3

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Not getting your stack in is pretty bad here...
 
TenJack

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Forgot to mention the stack sizes, villain has only about 25 behind on the river. I feel like if i go for value, he will definitely check-raise me all-in. When he ships the river, we have to consider boats that fit his range. Ace 8 is probably out, ace four, and ace 3 fit his range. I agree that i probably gave up value. He shows ATo, so could have gotten another 50$ out of him most likely.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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This isn't anywhere close to a check behind on the river so no, you were not right.

If you run into a better hand it won't be very often and you can get good value from an ace and even sometimes pocket pairs 10's and up.

So pretty mandatory bet on the river especially is villain is short-stacked (just put them all-in) otherwise at least 75% pot bet for me... Not very many people would fold an ace here, especially with a decent kicker.

Good luck! :D
 
mbrenneman0

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Forgot to mention the stack sizes, villain has only about 25 behind on the river. I feel like if i go for value, he will definitely check-raise me all-in. When he ships the river, we have to consider boats that fit his range. Ace 8 is probably out, ace four, and ace 3 fit his range. I agree that i probably gave up value. He shows ATo, so could have gotten another 50$ out of him most likely.
Put him all in on the turn with that stack size. Anything else is pretty horrible.

By virtue of him only playing a $50 stack, he is not a "pretty good tag"
 
quick

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I like the pre-flop, and flop play especially on this beautifully dry board. As for turn I agree with others, make the raise a little higher like $36-$40 or if you think villain is super sticky with stuff like AK you could even ship it on turn.

But really I'd say make turn bet a little larger, and definitely bet that river (maybe half pot for value?) and be prepared to ship it if he raises or shoves, you're only beat here by A8, A4, A3, or AA on this river, I wouldn't be able to shovel my stack into the center quick enough on that river , so much potential to stack every other Ax combo and smaller boats here.

I also now see you mentioned his stack is small, in that case i agree with brenneman0, just ship it on the turn and even if you don't ship it on the turn, it's $25 left on that board, just put him all in on river.
 
TenJack

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Put him all in on the turn with that stack size. Anything else is pretty horrible.

By virtue of him only playing a $50 stack, he is not a "pretty good tag"
mBrenneman I agree with the first part, (20/20 hindsight, right?) I'm not sure what his stack size has to do with his poker skill, though? He had bought at the max, like everybody else, and was having a bad session. Happens to everybody, right?
 
mbrenneman0

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mBrenneman I agree with the first part, (20/20 hindsight, right?) I'm not sure what his stack size has to do with his poker skill, though? He had bought at the max, like everybody else, and was having a bad session. Happens to everybody, right?


Not hindsight, basic hand reading. How many combos of Ax does he have compared to bigger boats? There are a ton of Ax in his range and he can never fold an Ace to your jam.

How do you get value for your set?

Pot size calculations are wrong btw. Theres 8$ more in the pot from the preflop action. So by my math, if hes got 25 behind, hed be calling 25 to win 111 if you jam the turn so he only needs to be "right" 20% of the time to call your jam. How much of his range is Ax when he double barrels the turn, and how many of those Ax are "priced in" to call that 25 on top? Im guessing he calls your turn jam about 90% of the time and is behind with everything but AA which make up less than 10% of his calling range. Not jamming here is leaving tons of money on the table

And yeah, a good tag tops up when he gets short. Not topping up caps your winnings, so the only reason you wouldnt top is a) youre not good e nough to make sure youre topped up before the next hand, or b) youre playing scared money and trying to cap your losses
 
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