$2 NLHE Full Ring: was value lost leading on the river for the K high flush?

playthosekings

playthosekings

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pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 8 players
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main villain no stats on him, first hand at the table. how do i extract the most value here? i had a feeling he would continue betting on the river so i was going to check raise

Da_Guillermo (UTG): $2.22 (111 bb)
Zog Buster (UTG+1): $2.18 (109 bb)
8888M8888 (MP): $2.13 (107 bb)
realmaster83 (MP+1): $2.00 (100 bb)
gingerxrite1999 (CO): $1.96 (98 bb)
sweetlegs3 (BU): $4.80 (240 bb)
playthosekings (SB): $2.92 (146 bb)
6uprugal (BB): $2.76 (138 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (playthosekings) is SB with J Q
4 players fold, gingerxrite1999 (CO) calls $0.02, sweetlegs3 (BU) calls $0.02, playthosekings (SB) raises to $0.08, 6uprugal (BB) calls $0.06, gingerxrite1999 (CO) calls $0.06, sweetlegs3 (BU) calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.32) K Q 5 (4 players)
playthosekings (SB) checks, 6uprugal (BB) checks, gingerxrite1999 (CO) bets $0.20, sweetlegs3 (BU) folds, playthosekings (SB) calls $0.20, 6uprugal (BB) folds

Turn: ($0.72) 2 (2 players)
playthosekings (SB) checks, gingerxrite1999 (CO) bets $0.50, playthosekings (SB) calls $0.50

River: ($1.72) 4 (2 players)
playthosekings (SB) checks, gingerxrite1999 (CO) checks

**sorry the title was wrong, was value lost by NOT leading **
 
Last edited:
bgomez89

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First, I'd probably raise to $0.12, 8 seems kind of small.

Second, what's your reasoning behind not cbetting the flop? Yeah there's an overcard but we actually hit the board and FDs/SDs or even middle pairs could call here.

As played, checking the river is fine although c/r seems disastrous to me. What do you think calls your raise that's worse? The K, Q, and J of clubs are all taken and I doubt any lesser club will call a c/r.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
I would just complete here and look to keep the pot small. Isoraising out of position with QJ against multible limpers is usually just building a big pot in a situation, where odds are stacked against you.

Flop
4 people saw the flop, and then to me second pair is just a check-fold. There is simply to much risk, you are behind and drawing to 5 outs here, which are not even clean. If you hit a J, someone could have KJ, AT or T9 etc.

Turn
You picked up a flushdraw, but you could be up against Ac or a made flush, so I am still check-folding.

River
4 to a flush, the second nuts. You could lead here and then fold to a raise, but checking is not bad either. Mainly you should not have gotten to the river like this.
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

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Hello, in this situation I prefer only call limps pre flop, because Qjo for me isn't too good hand for me to isolate limpers from the small blind and I don't like play this hand out of position. I always want play not too big pot with medium hand. From the small blind even if I caught top pair with Qjo on dangerous board I'm ready to fold when opponent is very aggressive. I prefer here playing passive this hand. On that flop I play check the flop, because I want to see what to do my opponents. When somebody bet on the flop I always fold this hand, because in multipot situation very possible that somebody caught top pair. Sometimes I call the flop with second pair when opponent play small bet, small bet is good price for me to see the turn and sometimes caught second pair.
 
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Sidetracked

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I think raising at a full table after 2 limpers when you have the worst position at the table for the hand is a very bad idea.
 
moulan7

moulan7

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Preflop I prefer to just complete the SB with QJo.
Raising out of position with a marginal hand like this it's not a good idea and if you want to raise with your good hands here I prefer a larger size than 4x. You have 2 limpers and you are oop, you want to charge them because of their positional advantage.

Everyone calls and we see the flop. I prefer check and fold to a bet. If we check call here every time against 4 people we probably losing money.

On turn the flush draw completes. We pay with wrong odds against a hand that probably beat us chasing the 2nd nut flush. Again I think that if we play like this every time we lose money. This is the 3rd mistake in this hand :p .

River. 2nd nuts, not bad xD. That's a lucky one.
Maybe you could lead bet here and fold to a raise since that raise will always be the nuts.
By checking though you give him the chance to bluff. I like your play here even if you might end up losing value from other flush hands that will almost always check back.

edit: I just saw you were going to check raise. 4th mistake xD
 
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GWU73

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The river is not the problem here. They is no reason to play this hand at all. If you are going to get froggy and 3bet preflop, you need to up the aggressive action. Either c-bet or check raise the flop. Calling down with second pair and chasing flushes with only one flush card is akin to setting money on fire. 9 out of 10 times you finish with second pair, and lose to TP or better.
 
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Casey55

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Needed to raise more preflop 3x the limp + the dead money in pot which would make it.

BUs limp = 0.2x3= 0.06+ All money in the pot

Co limp =0.02 + BB0.02 + SB = 0.01

Total is 0.11 now add 1bb for being OOP
0.13 would be a ideal raise, you always want to make it 1 more bb when being OOP or your giving your opponent too good pot odds to call , you have bet this river you lost value by not betting here don’t slowplay hands just bet them
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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The river is not the problem here. They is no reason to play this hand at all. If you are going to get froggy and 3bet preflop, you need to up the aggressive action. Either c-bet or check raise the flop. Calling down with second pair and chasing flushes with only one flush card is akin to setting money on fire. 9 out of 10 times you finish with second pair, and lose to TP or better.
3bet pre? What?
 
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