$2 NLHE Full Ring: Top pair top kicker facing a flop raise

Alucard

Alucard

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888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP: 140.5 BB (VPIP: 31.54, PFR: 26.92, 3Bet Preflop: 13.51, hands: 131)
MP+1: 57.5 BB (VPIP: 25.71, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 70)
MP+2: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 16.37, PFR: 8.77, 3Bet Preflop: 4.39, Hands: 347)
CO: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 25.71, PFR: 8.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
BTN: 190.5 BB (VPIP: 29.20, PFR: 18.58, 3Bet Preflop: 2.54, Hands: 344)
Hero (SB): 252 BB
BB: 93.5 BB (VPIP: 13.89, PFR: 9.72, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 73)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.60, PFR: 19.20, 3Bet Preflop: 2.63, Hands: 125)
UTG+1: 77.5 BB (VPIP: 28.85, PFR: 2.94, 3Bet Preflop: 2.56, Hands: 104)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Qs Ac
fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, BTN calls 6 BB

Flop : (19 BB, 2 players) Qh Jc 2h
Hero bets 12.5 BB, BTN raises to 45.5 BB, Hero??

Villain is a solid player. I would've continued if the raise was around 2.5 times the bet. Bet risking that much for a pair didn't agree with me.
But the villain could've had an under pair like 10s or lower as well.
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

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he's sizing that to play for deep stacks , looks like QQ or JJ to me calling the 3bet with possibly Ahxh the only hand you beat but i'm guessing still flipping with equity wise . naked TPTK with your stack size looks like a fold to me . can't see him doing this with an underpair
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Gross spot. I suppose bet/fold makes the most sense. Just sucks to get raised off of most of our range.

Deep stacked, I kinda prefer flatting preflop, especially since your opponents aren't positionally aware. Keeps us from playing for stacks with 1 pair.
 
Diegol

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I think sometimes also affect in his move the image he had about you i mean if you are folding top pair against a reraise i will reraise you on every spot i get so you should check his reraise ranges and his aggresion. He also could have AK AQ K10s so idk i think i had to call
 
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braveslice

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I don’t really know how to play this, but the key point of this hand is stack depth as discussed in previous posts. Playing stacks with top pair 200bb deep is big no against solid player, mostly no even against obvious bad player. Also only hints we have for aggression is nitty like 3bet % and large difference between pfr and vip typical for more passive players, most likely villain is betting only for solid value (as is reasonable in micros).

If you call it’s about SPR1 on the turn.

You should run database analysis for raise flop to see what kind of hands they usually do it.

(So shove or fold? While fold dominates)
 
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B

braveslice

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, especially since your opponents aren't positionally aware.
I would argue that large majority of 2NL hands you play are against positionally aware players. There are not that many totally new players coming to sport anymore. Those who know how to play in relative terms a) play more and more often b) play multiple tables

Even 10NL I feel that the majority of bad players I face are actually tournament players not understanding deep stack play.
 
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c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I would argue that large majority of 2NL hands you play are against positionally aware players. There are not that many totally new players coming to sport anymore. Those who know how to play in relative terms a) play more and more often b) play multiple tables

Even 10NL I feel that the majority of bad players I face are actually tournament players not understanding deep stack play.
I haven't played 2NL in ages, but I'd bet the average player doesn't have a 40% split between their UTG and BTN ranges.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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I haven't played 2NL in ages, but I'd bet the average player doesn't have a 40% split between their UTG and BTN ranges.

I'd say it depends, and specially on the site.
For an example if you play 2NL 6 max on stars, 5 out of 6 players are likely to have good raising & 3 betting ranges preflop. And if there's a fish who comes with a shorter buyin or such like that, all the decent players swarm into that table.

I see a lot of regs and streamers moving away from stars as well even at higher buyins due to this situation.
Watched a couple of KomodoDragonJesus' streams lately and he described this situation perfectly. He's now playing at party.
 
Figaroo2

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We have a decent amount of history with this player so the first thing I'm doing is going to the hud and looking at his raise cbet stats and his aggression levels generally and on the flop. If this is unusual for him then easy fold if he is a regular aggressive post flop raiser then you can consider calling. There's an obvious heart draw here and you aren't necessarily beaten at this point but you are out of position and his raise sizing is big. To continue I'd want to be sure of the player type I'm up against.
If in doubt I'd just fold and make a note. Most raises at 2nl are exactly what they say on the tin and generally a player at this level with a draw in position will just call and float rather than raise.
 
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