This is a discussion on $2 NLHE Full Ring: Should this AKoff be played less expensively within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 7 players
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UTG: $3.93 (197 bb)
MP (Hero): $2.46 (123 bb)
MP+1: $1.26 (63 bb)
CO: $1.88 (94
This was an UTG open and a EP 3-bet with effective stacks of 123BB, and in this situation I definitely dont think, we can profitably 5-bet AK. In fact when I played cash games, mindlessly stacking off AK preflop was one of my bigger leaks. Against some particular nitty players I could even see folding to his 4-bet being a reasonable option, but calling and seeing a flop in position is certainly the default option here.
I lean towards peeling off one here. You have a backdoor flushdraw and of course two overs, and if he check the turn, maybe you can get to showdown and sometimes split the pot against another AK or even be good. I dont hate folding either though. You are going to be against JJ-AA a lot of the time, so getting out and cutting your losses can never be that bad.
First I think the 3 bet sizing is too small. Sizing imo should be larger in the 16-18 cent range as we would rather play the hands heads up if we can and you get no fold equity from that small of a raise against an UTG opener.
I am torn a bit on the what to do after we get 4 bet. Its a large 4 bet and I instantly think we are going against a pocket pair here that is minimum 1010 and probably JJ+ and could even be QQ+ depending on the type of villain. I would also be asking myself what my plan is on the flop if I call this bet (I am not 5 betting into what I think is a big pair as we wont get any folds, will be getting it in badly, and will take away any chance to bluff this later if they have JJ or 1010). If my plan is to fold anytime there is not 3 diamonds, QJ10, or A or K then I will be folding a lot and we are giving up a lot of money here be calling and then folding. I kind of know that I am already behind here and depending on villain should be thinking how will they react if they have 1010-QQ and a K or A flops? If they will shut it down then I dont think it is worth calling here.
I get the call but do think if you make that call and two diamonds come as they did and you hold the ace of diamonds that you should call the flop and see what the turn brings. Personally I think I am letting my nitty nature take over here and folding pre flop. Smaller 4 bets I would be much more inclined to call here but this large of a 4 bet coming from an UTG opener spells trouble for us here and we could even be going against AA or KK even tough we have blockers which is very bad for us. I think this is a fold and move on
re: Poker & $2 NLHE Full Ring: Should this AKoff be played less expensively
Originally Posted by 300HPGOD
Smaller 4 bets I would be much more inclined to call here but this large of a 4 bet coming from an UTG opener spells trouble for us here and we could even be going against AA or KK even tough we have blockers which is very bad for us.
This is absolutely not as "crazy", as it might seem to some. In micro stakes full ring cash games there are lot of players, who will essentially only 4-bet AA or KK, when they open from EP and get 3-bet. If they have QQ or AK, they just call the 3-bet. And if his range is only KK and AA, then having the blockers only mean, we are less likely to get 4-bet. Which make AK a good 3-betting hand but not a good hand to continue against the 4-bet.
A classic scenario here is, Hero call the 4-bet, flop comes K93 or something of that nature, Villain bet almost the full size of the pot, Hero call. Turn is a blank like an offsuit 2, Villain move all in, Hero call and lose his whole stack to AA. Hero then complain about, how he always get coolered. By if the 4-betting range was only AA and KK to begin with, then the K on the flop did not really change anything, and getting stacked is simply a result of not ranging the opponent correctly.
As other players have said, the key here is the opening position. That in my opinion makes the difference between call/4bet, 5bet or fold to 4bet. The third bet has been of small size, so the UTG player has an advantage in his 4-bet range. In that situation, I agree with 5-bet jam when we think that the villain is an aggressive player. But I'd rather do it with a hand like AKs, which has a higher implied chance of improving postflop. If we don't have that reading that UTG is an aggressive player, I agree to fold/4-bet w/AKo when villain has us covered in chips. If we both had 200 bb of stack, I agree to call 4-bet w / AKo, since we have position with respect to villain.
As played, we must go the turn since if we call 4-bet in preflop, it is because we think that the V range contains more hands in addition to JJ+. And we can also improve on our draws.