$2 NLHE Full Ring: question about set mining

[F4STFORW4RD]

Been at this table for less than one round, two obvious fish but no real notes yet, and the guy to my right is a chronic limper. I have enclosed a screenshot so that you can see what HM2 is telling me, but please bear in mind that it shows the stats AFTER this hand which is why I am shown as 17/17/2 despite this being the first hand that I have bet in. I haven't played any hands at this table at this point, so no real table image. My overall stats at 2nl are 13.3 / 8.4 / 1.34 with a 3bet of 4.6%, but only one player here has any previous hands on me and they only have 40 hands on me in total and are not involved in this hand anyway.

So as usual I am looking for constructive advice please on bet sizing, and I have a couple of questions on set mining.

1) Presumably we want to end up all in if we hit a set, because the odds of hitting a set are fairly slim so we need a good pay-off to make it profitable?

2) When you guys talk about having made a note that an opponent is a set miner, do you mean that you have found them mining small pocket pairs? Would you class them as a set miner if they were playing 88 / 99 / TT, for example? Or does set mining refer to a style of play, for example continuing with a medium PP due to implied odds, even though you are probably way behind?

Anyway back to the hand in question, and as you can see the chronic limper has... well, limped! What next, please?

 

[KerouacsDog]

Im raising to 10cents there. 4xbb and the one limper.

 

[micromachine]

My overall stats at 2nl are 13.3 / 8.4 / 1.34 with a 3bet of 4.6%, but only one player here has any previous hands on me and they only have 40 hands on me in total and are not involved in this hand anyway.

Don't assume everyone at 2NL has a tracker

1) Presumably we want to end up all in if we hit a set, because the odds of hitting a set are fairly slim so we need a good pay-off to make it profitable?

Yeah, in general, you want to always try to get all your chips in if you hit a set. By that I don't mean just insta-shove the flop though, I would do a 3/4 pot bet and then pot bet or shove the turn depending on how drawy the board is. If you do a 3/4 pot bet on the flop and get raised, then I would normally shove.

2) When you guys talk about having made a note that an opponent is a set miner, do you mean that you have found them mining small pocket pairs? Would you class them as a set miner if they were playing 88 / 99 / TT, for example? Or does set mining refer to a style of play, for example continuing with a medium PP due to implied odds, even though you are probably way behind?

IMO set mining is raising preflop, or calling a raise preflop with a pair 99 or lower, with the specific aim of trying to flop a set. TT and above is different cos quite often you will have a overpair and can value bet hoping someone has a lower pair/draw/high cards.

What next, please?

Same as KD said, raise to 10c. If you get 3bet....hmmmm....idk, depends on villains 3bet stat.

 

[jbbb]

Raise. 10c - 12c seeing as the guy in the SB will probably come along as well. The guy isn't a set miner. Set miners are usually 6/6 or something along those lines. 22/0 is just a kinda loose, very passive, weak player. DW about getting 3bet. If someone behind you 3bets its probably an easy fold. If the original limper 3-bets its a snap fold too.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

Im raising to 10cents there. 4xbb and the one limper.

I'm glad you said that

IMO set mining is raising preflop, or calling a raise preflop with a pair 99 or lower, with the specific aim of trying to flop a set. TT and above is different cos quite often you will have a overpair and can value bet hoping someone has a lower pair/draw/high cards.

OK, thanks.

The guy isn't a set miner. Set miners are usually 6/6 or something along those lines.

Actually I was just trying to clarify whether I was set mining or not when I was playing TT, but MM has answered that for me.

If the original limper 3-bets its a snap fold too.

Unfortunately I didn't fold

Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (8 players) Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com


SB: $1.72
BB: $2.19
UTG: $1.86
UTG+1: $2.71
MP Hero: $1.97
MP+1: $0.92
CO: $1.26
BTN: $0.82
lisicca - Sitting Out


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP and dealt
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, MP+1 raises to $0.18, 2 folds, SB calls $0.17, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.16, Hero calls $0.08


Flop: ($0.74) (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.16

So, what now please?

 

[micromachine]

Seems good, shove it in and hope one of the other three calls with AA/KK/AQ or a flush/straight draw. You are only scared of QQ here

 

[micromachine]

You want to be very aggressive here, you have a great hand, very likely the best, but there are 3 others and you don't want them outdrawing you.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Since the hyper aggro shorty who 3bet is going to get AI pretty much 100% of the time, I like calling the flop donk bet and letting him shove over the top.

I think preflop is OK as played but I wouldn't be against shoving after the aggro shorty 3bets and everyone calls. Lots of money already in the middle, we're way ahead of shories range, and no one else ever has anything.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

Seems good, shove it in and hope one of the other three calls with AA/KK/AQ or a flush/straight draw. You are only scared of QQ here

I like that idea.

You want to be very aggressive here, you have a great hand, very likely the best, but there are 3 others and you don't want them outdrawing you.

I hear you, loud and clear

I think preflop is OK as played...

Thanks, means a lot to me. Thanks for all the help so far in my short experiment at playing cash games, it's much appreciated

Funnily enough I'm having FAR more fun playing cash games than I ever did playing tournaments, and playing with a full stack is also infinitely more exciting than SS cash play ever was. So, this is how it panned out.



Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (8 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com


SB: $1.72
BB: $2.19
UTG: $1.86
UTG+1: $2.71
MP Hero: $1.97
MP+1: $0.92
CO: $1.26
BTN: $0.82
lisicca - Sitting Out


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP and dealt
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, MP+1 raises to $0.18, 2 folds, SB calls $0.17, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.16, Hero calls $0.08


Flop: ($0.74) (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.16, Hero raises to $1.79 (All-in), MP+1 calls $0.74, SB calls $1.54 (All-in), UTG+1 calls $1.63


Turn: ($6.60) (4 players)


River: ($6.60) (4 players)


Final Pot: $6.60


Showdown:
UTG+1 shows (two pair, kings and queens)


Hero shows (a set of tens)


HJ shows (two pair, kings and queens)


SB shows (ace high)


Outcome: Hero wins $0.48
Outcome: Hero wins $2.28
Outcome: Hero wins $3.52


Thanks for all the advice, guys

 

[micromachine]

OMG they all called!

nh

Glad you're enjoying having a full stack...you would have won less than half that amount if still shortstacking.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

OMG they all called!

nh

Glad you're enjoying having a full stack...you would have won less than half that amount if still shortstacking.

Thanks

Pre-flop I was ahead with 36.877%, Ah6h next with 30.533% and the two with KQ messed each other up.

---
1,086,008 games 0.004 secs 271,502,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.877% 36.80% 00.08% 399612 872.75 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 16.295% 06.41% 09.89% 69565 107399.75 { KsQs }
Hand 2: 16.295% 06.41% 09.89% 69565 107399.75 { KdQd }
Hand 3: 30.533% 30.45% 00.08% 330721 872.75 { Ah6h }


---

Post flop I increased to 68.659%, and flush draw was still closest with 28.415%

---
820 games 0.001 secs 820,000 games/sec

Board: Th Qh 5c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.659% 68.66% 00.00% 563 0.00 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 01.463% 00.00% 01.46% 0 12.00 { KsQs }
Hand 2: 01.463% 00.00% 01.46% 0 12.00 { KdQd }
Hand 3: 28.415% 28.41% 00.00% 233 0.00 { Ah6h }


---

After the turn the guys with KQ are drawing dead and I am up to 82.5%

---
40 games 0.001 secs 40,000 games/sec

Board: Th Qh 5c 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 82.500% 82.50% 00.00% 33 0.00 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 00.000% 00.00% 00.00% 0 0.00 { KsQs }
Hand 2: 00.000% 00.00% 00.00% 0 0.00 { KdQd }
Hand 3: 17.500% 17.50% 00.00% 7 0.00 { Ah6h }


---

 

[KerouacsDog]

MP+1's 3 bet was shocking, you raise to 10c and he raises to 18c, if he would have made it 30c I can find an easy fold there with TT. But the hand worked out very nice for you, well played.

 

[Nathan Williams]

I just make a standard raise here to 10c or so.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

Another question - why does HM2 not show anything on the 3bet stats, even though one of them 3bet?

I just make a standard raise here to 10c or so.

How about calling the re-raise? I'm wondering whether I put too much emphasis on being in position in those types of situations.

 

[KerouacsDog]

Another question - why does HM2 not show anything on the 3bet stats, even though one of them 3bet? How about calling the re-raise? I'm wondering whether I put too much emphasis on being in position in those types of situations.

calling what reraise?

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

calling what reraise?

Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP and dealt
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, MP+1 raises to $0.18

If the original limper 3-bets its a snap fold too.

 

[KerouacsDog]

Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP and dealt
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, MP+1 raises to $0.18

for 8 cents more Im calling. and seeing what the flop brings. if he did a proper 3-bet(to 30 cents) Im folding pretty much every time

 

[micromachine]

for 8 cents more Im calling. and seeing what the flop brings. if he did a proper 3-bet(to 30 cents) Im folding pretty much every time

I agree, I don't give much credit to these feeble 3bets.

 

[jbbb]

For the record I said if original limper 3bets you should fold. Limp re-raising is nearly always aces. In this case the limper did not re-raise

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

Guess BlackRain is just going to stick to safe bets for the time being