$2 NLHE Full Ring: Not at all sure if I played this right

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RVladimiro

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Info on the villain:

Not that many hands (28) and by that time he was 43/21. I only saw him play pocket pairs, suited connectors and T+ cards. One thing I noticed was that he didn't pay much attention to position but was aggressive post-flop.

Given this info, need your opinion:

UTG: $2.00
UTG+1: $1.89
MP: $3.17
MP+1: $1.72
CO: $2.83
BTN: $5.29
Hero (SB): $3.27
BB: $2.20

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has [9d] [9s]

fold, fold, MP raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.07, fold

Flop: ($0.18, 2 players) [7h] [8h] [8s]
Hero bets $0.12, MP raises to $0.37, Hero calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.92, 2 players) [7c]
Hero checks, MP bets $0.52, Hero calls $0.52

River: ($1.96, 2 players) [7s]
Hero bets $1.30, MP calls $1.30
 
TylerN

TylerN

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3bet pre vs this guy. he calls with much worse

as played, raise flop. he calls with 7x, SD's, FD's and maybe worse PP's
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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as played, raise flop. he calls with 7x, SD's, FD's and maybe worse PP's
that's a crazy wide range to be giving someone who we only have 28 hands on...

I like the flop donk bet and i think i probably play it the same as you did but why did you donk bet the river?
 
TylerN

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that's a crazy wide range to be giving someone who we only have 28 hands on...

and how much is that going to change when guy is runing 42/21 over 28 hands to over 500 hands?
 
bgomez89

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Depends on theperson....
 
forsakenone

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some guy was playing something like 42/21 at 10nl yesterday, it was him vs me and other 5 regulars, he crushed us all. i lost 2 buyins somehow.
 
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RVladimiro

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I like the flop donk bet and i think i probably play it the same as you did but why did you donk bet the river?

I saw him bet heavily with suited hands and pairs. I made the donk bet to give him the wrong odds to chase me and make him fold if he was on a flush draw because I never saw him play a hand with 7 or 8.

He could have a higher pair or 77 or 88 but against his range I felt I was ahead of him. His raise didn't make sense to me at all.
 
bgomez89

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I saw him bet heavily with suited hands and pairs. I made the donk bet to give him the wrong odds to chase me and make him fold if he was on a flush draw because I never saw him play a hand with 7 or 8.

He could have a higher pair or 77 or 88 but against his range I felt I was ahead of him. His raise didn't make sense to me at all.

ok, thanks for explaining why you donk bet the flop but I asked why you decided to donk bet the river.

Also, why would you want someone with a flush draw to fold?
 
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RVladimiro

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ok, thanks for explaining why you donk bet the flop but I asked why you decided to donk bet the river.

Sorry I misread your post initially. I bet for value. At that point, with a boat on the board and me having a better boat, not many hands could beat me. I was pretty sure he had missed the board entirely. To be honest I don't understand why he called unless he thought I was bluffing.

Also, why would you want someone with a flush draw to fold?

Because I'm too much of a newbie fish! :) If I don't have the correct odds, I'll fold because I don't know how to handle it on later streets. Implied odds is cute and so on, but if I don't have over cards on top of my flush draw, I'm puzzled on how to proceed. Given the average competition at these stakes, I'm hoping they are at least as newbie fish as I am. :)

What should I know about draws? I have the same problem with straight draws, not the right odds = fold.
 
bgomez89

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No I mean if u think he has a flush draw why would you want him to fold like you said
 
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RVladimiro

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Ok we are talking about different streets.

Flop: I had two pairs. I didn't want to give him odds in case he had a flush draw. If I have a hand and there's a draw, I want to take the hand immediatelly. Am I doing something wrong?

Turn: I don't know why the hell I c/c. Maybe I should've followed the same reasoning of the flop (or maybe not). I could argue that with two pair on a flushing board I was controling the pot size, but I didn't think about that to be honest. Or maybe I didn't want another raise. I honestly can't reason my thoughts.

River: I had a boat higher than the board boat, I bet for value.
 
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I think ranges can change a lot from 28 hands. I've seen people with 40ish drop down to around 20. Might just be getting lots of good cards.
 
bgomez89

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Ok we are talking about different streets.

Flop: I had two pairs. I didn't want to give him odds in case he had a flush draw. If I have a hand and there's a draw, I want to take the hand immediatelly. Am I doing something wrong?

You're not doing anything wrong but you're thinking wrong. When there's a draw out there we don't want the person to fold their draw because we make money from them. When there's a draw you need to base your bet size on:

1)How much is enough to not give them odds to call?
2)How much are they willing to call to chase their draw?

So while it betting 1/2 pot might be enough to not give them odds on their draw, if we think that villain will call a 3/4 pot bet, we should bet that much because we get more money! Yay! You should be thanking villain when he calls you with a worse hand, not thinking "CMON WTF, U NEED TO FOLD!"
Turn: I don't know why the hell I c/c. Maybe I should've followed the same reasoning of the flop (or maybe not). I could argue that with two pair on a flushing board I was controling the pot size, but I didn't think about that to be honest. Or maybe I didn't want another raise. I honestly can't reason my thoughts.

To be honest, I don't know what you were doing on the flop, calling his raise is weird, what the hell did you put him on? You think he's really going to raise you with 22-66? Most people slow down when donk bet into and will most likely just call with their draws or big overcards. I have no idea why you look past the fact that he could have a better pair than you.

If you had some read that villain is capable of raising donk bets and/or his draws/overcards then I like donk betting the turn, that way he can't check behind us and see a free river card if he is on a draw
River: I had a boat higher than the board boat, I bet for value.

what makes you think he's playing the board here?
 
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RVladimiro

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Thank you very much for your answer, mate. It's enlightning.

About the draws, I see your point. The objective is not making him fold, but making him pay me. I never thought of it that way. My understanding was that by giving incorrect pot odds he would fold. This raises another question I'll post in another thread but I got it. :)

About calling the raise. Like I said in the OP my two feeble reads on him was that he played pairs, suited and broadways from anywhere and that he was very aggressive post flop. Against that range I was ahead a lot of times. His raise made no sense to me like other bets and raises he did in the previous hands didn't. He could have air, a draw or a monster but his aggression was pretty much the same which made my call kind of easy. I had some showdown value and against what I thought was his range I could even be way ahead.

About the river. Now you made me wonder. My only reasoning was that I was ahead of the board and that not many hands could harm me. I'm guessing this is pretty dumb. :)
 
bgomez89

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About calling the raise. Like I said in the OP my two feeble reads on him was that he played pairs, suited and broadways from anywhere and that he was very aggressive post flop. Against that range I was ahead a lot of times. His raise made no sense to me like other bets and raises he did in the previous hands didn't. He could have air, a draw or a monster but his aggression was pretty much the same which made my call kind of easy. I had some showdown value and against what I thought was his range I could even be way ahead.

About the river. Now you made me wonder. My only reasoning was that I was ahead of the board and that not many hands could harm me. I'm guessing this is pretty dumb. :)

Pairs include pairs that are bigger than yours too. Just because you have an overpair to the board, doesn't mean it's the strongest hand. As mentioned before, do you think he raises 22 on this board to your flop bet? But yeah, the main point is if you think he raises draws and overcards on the flop then you need to bet the turn first so he doesn't check behind and get a free card.

Yeah your river thought process isn't dumb but it just doesn't seem you're not giving too much thought that you could actually be beat. Think about his line:

You bet flop, he raised
You checked turn, he bet(even though it was a bit small)

You have to at least give him some credit for a pair bigger than yours(not saying that you should fold).
 
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RVladimiro

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This got me thinking... I'm reviewing hands today and I just put up a filter of calling raises from any street and this is huge leak. When I finish reviewing I'll write down my conclusions.
 
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RVladimiro

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@bgomez89

Yep confirmed, I'm not giving enough respect to the raises. It's a major leak and I only noticed the times I won (like this hand). In this hand I was actually right! He was too aggressive, had only a draw yada yada yada, but there are dozens of hands where I lost a considerable amount for not giving credit.

I posted everything here: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok.../vlads-journal-196962/index2.html#post1750719

Cheers and thank you for the time, it was way worth it beyond the hand itself.
 
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