$2 NLHE Full Ring: My move here?

Misofer

Misofer

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full tilt poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $0.41
BTN: $0.65
SB: $2.00
Hero (BB): $2.34
UTG: $0.78
UTG+1: $3.06
UTG+2: $1.18
MP1: $1.50
MP2: $2.01

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with J :heart: 5 :heart:
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.12) 6 :heart: Q :heart: 9 :club: (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $0.06, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls $0.06, SB folds, Hero calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.30) 4 :heart: (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.10, CO calls $0.10, Hero... ???





So I got J high flush, what would you do in this spot having position and 2 callers before you?
 
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mikejm

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reraise the size of the pot. after the river if a fourth heart hits shut it down and if a fourth heart doest hit bet for value
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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What he said, and I'd probably bet the flop.
 
Sysvr4

Sysvr4

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What he said, and I'd probably bet the flop.

Yeah, that or at least minraise the flop for value.

And yeah, raise the turn, I'm missing how it's not completely obvious. What's your question/confusion specifically, OP?
 
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ComplexPlaya

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What he said, and I'd probably bet the flop.

Yeah, that or at least minraise the flop for value.

And yeah, raise the turn, I'm missing how it's not completely obvious. What's your question/confusion specifically, OP?

Was today smoke-pot-from-a-bong day on CC? Darn it, I always miss it!

Why would he bet the flop / raise flop in an 8-way pot with a J high flush draw?? Makes no sense. For value? What value? You expect the range that calls you to be mostly worse hands? A bet or raise on the flop can only be a semi-bluff, which I have no idea why you'd want to do at 2nl in an 8 player pot.

You got lucky someone bet on the turn OP, you should have bet out yourself. Now raise it, put them all in here or on any river, they even have little behind. It's simple.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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5 players.

People fold a lot in limped pots. Maybe 5 players is a bit much, but against 3 I deffo bet all day and expect to see fold/fold/fold pretty often.

Players in limped pots play hands like suited connectors and small pairs that don't hit many flops. And a jack high flush draw is a great hand to have when your opponents are playing 34s and 66. So when we bet the flop, even if they've hit their set or combo draw, our hand still plays really well against them.
 
Sysvr4

Sysvr4

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Why would he bet the flop / raise flop in an 8-way pot with a J high flush draw?? Makes no sense. For value? What value? You expect the range that calls you to be mostly worse hands? A bet or raise on the flop can only be a semi-bluff, which I have no idea why you'd want to do at 2nl in an 8 player pot.

Think of it as a LHE exercise. You have somewhere between 30-40% equity in the pot on the flop. Each time you get 2 or more people to call a bet into the pot, you're building equity you otherwise would not have realized when your flush hits. If it doesn't hit, you slow down, but on the flop you have both a) too much equity to check and b) a realistic expectation of building more by betting.

Ed Miller's books have a number of great examples of this, if you haven't read them, I recommend it. Or you can smoke pot, your choice. :)
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Think of it as a LHE exercise. You have somewhere between 30-40% equity in the pot on the flop. Each time you get 2 or more people to call a bet into the pot, you're building equity you otherwise would not have realized when your flush hits. If it doesn't hit, you slow down, but on the flop you have both a) too much equity to check and b) a realistic expectation of building more by betting.

Ed Miller's books have a number of great examples of this, if you haven't read them, I recommend it. Or you can smoke pot, your choice. :)

Hey man don't be dissing pot. Smoking pot would not prevent reading ed miller books :p

You do have a valid point, however you have to count equity by street, 30% is for all in equity which isn't the case. So make it 16-18%, probably 16 considering card removal in a full ring game.

Now the problem is this is NLHE and while c/c is fine and peachy in this spot with 4 players to act after you you can easily get raised, then what? Chase a J high FD OOP? I don't think so. Or do you thin the reward of getting more money in for the times you'll hit outweighs this risk + the times you miss ?
 
Sysvr4

Sysvr4

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You do have a valid point, however you have to count equity by street, 30% is for all in equity which isn't the case. So make it 16-18%, probably 16 considering card removal in a full ring game.

It plays like a limit hand with a minraise almost always, which gives us full equity value for the raise as we're in perfect relative position. The most valid counterargument against raising is that we have to hope to get away with a defense bet or check/call on the turn if we don't hit, which obviously won't always be the case.

Now the problem is this is NLHE and while c/c is fine and peachy in this spot with 4 players to act after you you can easily get raised, then what? Chase a J high FD OOP? I don't think so. Or do you thin the reward of getting more money in for the times you'll hit outweighs this risk + the times you miss ?

I *hope* I get reraised on the flop and I hope it's CO or SB that does the raising so when I jam there's a lot of dead money bloating my equity. In my experience, people are scared enough of the double c/r that we're unlikely to face a bet of any significance on the turn, making a minraise for value on the flop profitable. Admittedly, the play works better in LHE though.
 
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