$2 NLHE 6-max: What hands should I call this jam with?

[Jamalex]

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

What hands would you call this river with if not this one besides flushes? I feel I need more calls then just flushes but I could be wrong.

CO: 193.5 BB
Hero (BTN): 104 BB
SB: 204 BB
BB: 109 BB
UTG: 42.5 BB
MP: 109.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q♠ K♥

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB raises to 11 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) K♣ T♥ 4♣
BB bets 8.5 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB

Turn: (39.5 BB, 2 players) 6♥
BB bets 13 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

River: (65.5 BB, 2 players) Q♣
BB bets 76.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 71.5 BB and is all-in

RESULTS ARE BELOW


































Hero shows Q♠ K♥ (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 38%, Flop 49%, Turn 68%)
BB shows A♣ J♣ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 62%, Flop 51%, Turn 32%)
BB wins 198.5 BB

 

[DaMooca]

I already played nl2 and usually in those limits when they go all in it is hardly a bluff. I would fold easy there.
Even more how the hand was played. Pre-flop 3bet, bet flop, turn and shove on the river and the villain out of position.
Even with medium flush I would tend to fold.

 

[Shumkoolie]

Well, you definitely were playing against a blaster for sure. I'm not sure if you had any prior history with this player, but I would not have called that three bet. You're not ahead of much of villain's 3 bet range - TT/JJ/QQ (though you do have blockers for that hand) and are far behind AA/KK/AK - though again, you hold blockers/(maybe AQ).

But, considering your call, let's take a look at post-flop.

22 big blinds on that flop and they now bet 1/3rd pot after their large 3bet pre-flop. To me, we're REALLY hoping they've flopped some kind of draw (flush/straight), though the three bet pre and with the Kc on the flop, I'm less inclined to think it's a draw, but not yet willing to concede that possibility, so a call is fine.

Turn is a very interesting card because it doesn't help them in any way. Here's where I think you went wrong here. There's still a flush draw, and again, villain bets 1/3rd pot. That bet screams draw to me. At this point, though I'm not loving it, I'm going to jam here. I think they would have either built a larger pot with AK/AA or slowplayed it, hoping you would bet for them, but they didn't do either, so I'm discounting both hands from their range.

The river card is the absolute worst card for you because now you almost have to call, because you're now beating AA and AK here.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
A solver or AI program would probably have KQo as a call of the 3-bet. But in the micros I think, you will find, that a lot of people basically dont have any bluffs in their range, when they 3-bet from BB. Not even against a BTN open. So I actually think, it would be ok to simply fold and let him have this one. Against an aggressive regular at higher stakes I would defend though.

Flop and turn
Definitely not folding top pair to these small bet sizes. There could be an argument for raising turn, if you think, his sizing is very indicative of a draw. Mostly I would just call though and see, what happen on the river.

River
You improved to top two, which is of course good, because now you beat AA and AK. What is not so good is, that frontdoor flushdraw has come in as well as AJ making a straight, and now he size up considerably and overbet jam. This really does smell like, he was trying to set a cheap price with a draw, and now he wants to get paid.

You made, what I think is a key statement here, that "you feel you need more calls than just flushes". This indicate, that you are thinking in ranges and trying to be perfectly balanced in all spots, and in the micros that is a huge mistake. Nobody, and I mean literally nobody, at 2NL, are going to ever figure out, how often you are folding to a river jam in a 3-bet pot, when all the major draws completed. So even if you fold 100% of your range on the river, you are never going to get exploited for it.

So just play on a hand to hand basis. What are the pot odds, and how often do you think, you are good? Even with that approach this is a rough spot to be honest. Its clear, that he is representing a flush and maybe AJ. But perhaps there could also be some "entitlement jam" in there with AA or AK. He kind of hates the river card and dont know, what to do, so he just ships it in essentially turning his hand into a value bluff.

I could go either way here based on, what mood I was in, and my reads on the opponent. Without any info on the opponent I do mostly lean towards a fold here, even though its really tough to fold, when you just improved. But I think, as this hand played out and especially with his sizing, two major draws completing are more important than the fact, you now beat AA and AK.

 

[Jamalex]

Well, you definitely were playing against a blaster for sure. I'm not sure if you had any prior history with this player, but I would not have called that three bet. You're not ahead of much of villain's 3 bet range - TT/JJ/QQ (though you do have blockers for that hand) and are far behind AA/KK/AK - though again, you hold blockers/(maybe AQ).

But, considering your call, let's take a look at post-flop.

22 big blinds on that flop and they now bet 1/3rd pot after their large 3bet pre-flop. To me, we're REALLY hoping they've flopped some kind of draw (flush/straight), though the three bet pre and with the Kc on the flop, I'm less inclined to think it's a draw, but not yet willing to concede that possibility, so a call is fine.

Turn is a very interesting card because it doesn't help them in any way. Here's where I think you went wrong here. There's still a flush draw, and again, villain bets 1/3rd pot. That bet screams draw to me. At this point, though I'm not loving it, I'm going to jam here. I think they would have either built a larger pot with AK/AA or slowplayed it, hoping you would bet for them, but they didn't do either, so I'm discounting both hands from their range.

The river card is the absolute worst card for you because now you almost have to call, because you're now beating AA and AK here.

I really like the way you thought about this one, it definitely all makes since looking back. In the moment, I did not have that "he has a draw feeling" as you did looking at this spot. This is mostly just my inexperience with opponent bet sizing tells probably, but I don't think I would ever check raise this spot at least at this time. I'm still behind his value range on the turn and don't want to get creamed when he has his value hands. As for the river I knew as soon as I saw the card, I was not happy. I would have rather seen a blank, called down and lost to his AK+ hands. I'll definitely have my eye out for hands like this again and see if I notice certain betting patterns tend to indicate the opponent is on a draw.

 

[Jamalex]

Preflop
A solver or AI program would probably have KQo as a call of the 3-bet. But in the micros I think, you will find, that a lot of people basically dont have any bluffs in their range, when they 3-bet from BB. Not even against a BTN open. So I actually think, it would be ok to simply fold and let him have this one. Against an aggressive regular at higher stakes I would defend though.

Flop and turn
Definitely not folding top pair to these small bet sizes. There could be an argument for raising turn, if you think, his sizing is very indicative of a draw. Mostly I would just call though and see, what happen on the river.

River
You improved to top two, which is of course good, because now you beat AA and AK. What is not so good is, that frontdoor flushdraw has come in as well as AJ making a straight, and now he size up considerably and overbet jam. This really does smell like, he was trying to set a cheap price with a draw, and now he wants to get paid.

You made, what I think is a key statement here, that "you feel you need more calls than just flushes". This indicate, that you are thinking in ranges and trying to be perfectly balanced in all spots, and in the micros that is a huge mistake. Nobody, and I mean literally nobody, at 2NL, are going to ever figure out, how often you are folding to a river jam in a 3-bet pot, when all the major draws completed. So even if you fold 100% of your range on the river, you are never going to get exploited for it.

So just play on a hand to hand basis. What are the pot odds, and how often do you think, you are good? Even with that approach this is a rough spot to be honest. Its clear, that he is representing a flush and maybe AJ. But perhaps there could also be some "entitlement jam" in there with AA or AK. He kind of hates the river card and dont know, what to do, so he just ships it in essentially turning his hand into a value bluff.

I could go either way here based on, what mood I was in, and my reads on the opponent. Without any info on the opponent I do mostly lean towards a fold here, even though its really tough to fold, when you just improved. But I think, as this hand played out and especially with his sizing, two major draws completing are more important than the fact, you now beat AA and AK.

I have been noticing exactly that lately honestly, I think I need to stop bluffing as much. (My red line is very very good at 2NL but my blue line is awful because my bluffs are getting called down too often) I am trying to think in ranges and balancing but I agree that is definitely hurting me. I'll need to postpone that thinking until I can get out of this circus and like you said, just go hand by hand. I need to try and stick to being value heavy in most spots and forget about bluffing as much since I'm being called down all the time with TP weak kicker or middle pair/any pocket pair really. Sometimes there are players who when they have AK on a low board, they will call 3 streets of betting and never fold because they have a "strong" hand even without a pair. I also believe I'm calling too many 3-bets and should be folding alot more often then I am when I'm vs 100bb stacks.

 

[Shumkoolie]

I already played nl2 and usually in those limits when they go all in it is hardly a bluff. I would fold easy there.

Yes, everything else you said DaMooca, I agree, but this is the biggest takeaway Jamalex at these limits. Most players are pretty ABC in how they play. If they have it, they bet it, if not, they won't (unless they're trying to trap you). So you're less likely to get a bluff through. But that's an overall assumption, and there are some players you might be able to bluff, but again, that comes with playing multiple hands with them, see how they bet, how they react to pressure.

Preflop
A solver or AI program would probably have KQo as a call of the 3-bet. But in the micros I think, you will find, that a lot of people basically dont have any bluffs in their range, when they 3-bet from BB. Not even against a BTN open. So I actually think, it would be ok to simply fold and let him have this one. Against an aggressive regular at higher stakes I would defend though.

I could go either way here based on, what mood I was in, and my reads on the opponent. Without any info on the opponent I do mostly lean towards a fold here, even though its really tough to fold, when you just improved. But I think, as this hand played out and especially with his sizing, two major draws completing are more important than the fact, you now beat AA and AK.

The very last thing is key here. I know in a vacuum, without the benefit of a lot of time to think about it, fundiver hits it right on the head. You have to ask yourself what you think your opponent is going to make this exact bet with. You can pretty much eliminate bluffs because as we all know, bluffs will be a VERY TINY part of their range at this level of play. They are pretty polarized really in how they bet their hand up to the river, and then to shove slightly larger than pot, it's VERY likely that you're not good here.

But that's the neat part here, three different people responded with slightly different thoughts on how it was played. Who's correct? It's hard to say because none of us said the exact same thing.

Hopefully this is helpful and that others will respond too.